Genetic Linkages Between West Africa and Ancient Greece:
HLA genes allele distribution has been studied in Mediterranean and sub-Saharan populations. Their relatedness has been tested by genetic distances, neighbour-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses.
The population genetic relationships have been compared with the history of the classical populations living in the area. A revision of the historic postulates would have to be undertaken, particularly in the cases when genetics and history are overtly discordant. HLA genomics shows that: 1) Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and west Africans) also supported by Chr 7 Markers.
The gene flow from Black Africa to Greece may have occurred in Pharaonic times or when Saharan people emigrated after the present hyperarid conditions were established (5000 years B.C.).
2) Turks (Anatolians) do not significantly differ from other Mediterraneans, indicating that while the Asians Turks carried out an invasion with cultural significance (language), it is not genetically detectable.
3) Kurds and Armenians are genetically very close to Turks and other Middle East populations.
4) There is no HLA genetic trace of the so called Aryan invasion, which has only been defined on doubtful linguistic bases.
5) Iberians, including Basques, are related to north-African Berbers.
6) Present-day Algerian and Moroccan urban and country people show an indistinguishable Berber HLA profile.
Authors:
Arnaiz-Villena A, Gomez-Casado E, Martinez-Laso J.
Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain.
Tissue Antigens. 2002 Aug;60(2):111-21.
PMID: 12392505 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]
Typical black excitment over this discredited article. Pitiful. See my other arguments here
African Roots of Ireland
Black Like The Ancient Europeans: The Black (First) Europeans
The The Africans Who Discovered Europe — Black (First) Europeans Part II
Septic
You really do need an education.
You must be very far behind cutting edge genetic population mapping conducted by your mini-gods of main stream establishment.
See Cavili Sofaza, goggle P. Underhill, also goggle for S.O.Y. Keita just for starters. Perhaps their authority will save you more embarrasment.
I doubt it though. Because some classical literature had once said: “Give not pearls to swines, otherwise they will trample them underfeet.”
Your obstinacy in light of evidence is pitiful. Your whinning is turning to a whimper.
I feel your fear and your angst. But the truth must be spread inspite of people like you.
You are lost in wishful thinking and shallow thoughts. You have lost your way in racialist “Aryan revisionism”.
Yet, Aryanism is a lost cause like your Daddy Hitler. Because, 10,000 years of Black History, could not be wiped away so easily.
Jahdey
From Jahdey to the Septic Troll: Read and comprehend.
Genetic Linkages Demonstrating African/Greece Connections:
Abstract: HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQallele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first timedetermined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, par-ticularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-join-ing dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. Thefollowing conclusions have been reached:
1) Macedonians belong to the‘‘older’’ Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), Arab-NorthAfricans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Ar-menians and Iranians,
2) Macedonians are not related with geographicallyclose Greeks, who do not belong to the ‘‘older’’ Mediterranenan substratum,
3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiop-ian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. BothGreeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305,*0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310.Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharangroups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks clusterwith Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms andcorrespondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displace-ment of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.
The highly polymorphic HLA system has been validated as useful fordistinguishing and/or relating populations (and individuals) in manyresearch studies since the first International HLA AnthropologyWorkshop (Evian, 1973) and in all the subsequent seven InternationalWorkshops. HLA gene frequencies correlate with geographically re-lated populations. The existence or absence of gene flow among neighbouring ethnic groups may be assessed with the study of HLAfrequencies and the corresponding genetic distances (1, 2).Ancient Macedonians were among the peoples that lived be-tween northern Greece (Thessaly) and Thrace in the Balkans andwere considered by the classical Greeks as ‘‘non-Greek barbarians’’that could not participate in the Greek Olympic Games (3).
HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks (pdf)
Septic troll, any more arguments???
One love to all
Jahdey
“I feel your fear and your angst. But the truth must be spread inspite of people like you.
You are lost in wishful thinking and shallow thoughts.”
Isn’t it interesting how that’s exactly what I would say to describe you. So often we project our own problems onto others. By the way, you’ve never refuted my other comments elsewhere.
I don’t submit to “Aryan revisionism” or “Aryanism”, nor do I admire Hitler, and I don’t need to to disagree with you.
“Septic troll, any more arguments???”
Yes: Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit
“Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.”
“The limitations are made evident by the authors’ extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups.”
“We believe that the paper [the one cited in this essay] should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit.”
That from Cavalli-Sforza. Also, this: Racial Reality and Greeks
Sceptic
I found this on your referenced link:
“A recent paper has detected clades of haplogroups J and E3b that were likely not part of pre-historic migrations into Europe, but rather spread by later historical movements. Greeks ….. [then there is] the marker J-M267, which may reflect more recent Middle Eastern admixture.”
(Semino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2004)
Do you understand what haplogroup E3B is? That is a quintessentially African lineage. (Underhill, et al). E3B is found in Tanzania, Kenya, and Mozambique.
Haplogroup J is another ancient African lineage found in Ethiopians, Sudanese, Egyptian, Afro-Arabs of Yemen and some South Africans, especially marker J-M267. (S.O.Y. Keita)
Besides, when you see terms like “Middle Eastern haplogroup” think the Black Arabs. The Sabeans, Habasha, Yemenites, Omanis etc. Old East African population who crossed the Red Sea to the opposite coast. They still live there today, they still come black.
If you are able to find a paper that positively refutes Greek/African connections please post it. Until you can do so, the burden of proof remains on you.
On another note, I have not bothered refuting your foolishness since you have always undermined all your arguments with inconsistent logic and shallow generalization. Your illogical analysis are your greatest undoing. I make an exception this time.
Additionally, perhaps you are the only one who has yet to understand that ancient Egypt was an African civilization. The pale skin Aryans (especially the Nordic albino types) have never and will never attain to the heights of ancient Egypt. Nothing in Euroland in the past or in the future could ever equal Kemit.
Ancient Egyptians were an African people. Dark and lovely like they could ever come. Take a trip to Egypt and look on the monuments and the people with your eyes. That is why ancient Egyptians called their country Kem (The Black Country) and called themselves Kemites (Black people). Nowhere have I ever come across ancient Kemites refering to themselves as pale skin people.
Herodotus, Strabo, Diodorus Siculus, (ancient Greeks) who actually saw the Kemites, spoke with them and slept in their country told us that Kemites were dark, and had curly hair, like the Ethiopians and the Sudanese their neighbour. But yes, I forget, in your twisted thinking all those are “Black white people”.
Anyway, you still have much learning to do. I will not be your teacher. Go read some real books. You spend too much time prowling red neck aryanist websites.
Jahdey
“Haplogroup J is another ancient African lineage found in Ethiopians, Sudanese, Egyptian, Afro-Arabs of Yemen and some South Africans. (S.O.Y. Keita)”
Actually, it’s a Middle Eastern haplogroup.
“Do you understand what haplogroup E3B is? That is a quintessentially African lineage. (Underhill, et al). E3B is found in Tanzania, Kenya, and Mozambique.”
A Northeast African (i.e. Caucasoid) haplogroup. Both spread with the Neolithic expansion of agriculture, neither from black Africa, hardly “quintessential“.
You can also click on the pretty little pictures at the bottom of that frame to see some non-black Northeast Africans. Also, just in case you’ve forgotten, here are some more.
“If you are able to find a paper that positively refutes Greek/African connections please post it. Until you can do so, the burden of proof remains on you.”
Okay. Or – how ’bout you produce some convincing evidence of your claims, since they go against the grain of established knowledge, and since all you have to rely on is a discredited paper.
“I have not bothered refuting your foolishness since you have always undermined all your arguments with inconsistent logic and shallow generalization. Your illogical analysis are your greatest undoing.”
Oh of course. Thanks for clearing that up. Or, could it perhaps be because you *can’t* refute them because they’re *truthful*, and that all you have are nonsensical evaluations like above quoted one?
“perhaps you are the only one who has yet to understand that ancient Egypt was an African civilization.”
“The only one” – trust me, I’m not the only one who disagrees with you. African, yes; black, no, as I’ve already explained
“The pale skin Aryans (especially the Nordic albino types) have never and will never attain to the heights of ancient Egypt. Nothing in Euroland in the past or in the future could ever equal Kemit.”
Yet more obsession with skin tone. As I’ve pointed out before, vilifying the skin color of others reveals your own insecurity about, and perhaps even twisted shame of, your own skin color. As for achievements, the West has already surpassed any previous civilization with the examples I’ve already given; and I’ve already explained to you that the “Nordic albino types” aren’t confined to Northern Europe, or even to Europe at all. Care to elaborate on why you believe they’re so different from other white people? All you have to put your faith in is “Kemet”; and wasn’t it you, by the way, who asked me what non-Southern Europeans have ever done (which question I also answered, without response)? How about asking yourself the same about non-North Africans?
“Ancient Egyptians were an African people.”
Already covered
“Herodotus, Strabo, Diodorus Siculus, (ancient Greeks) who actually saw the Kemites, spoke with them and slept in their country told us that Kemites were dark, and had curly hair, like the Ethiopians and the Sudanese their neighbour.”
Well, Jahdey, I have another link for you (that I may have already posted) that, surely, you’ll just dismiss with absurd rantings because you can’t challenge it intelligently.
“Anyway, you still have much learning to do. I will not be your teacher. Go read some real books. You spend too much time prowling red neck aryanist websites.”
*I* have much learning to do? LOL. Okay. Well, since the definition of “education” has been questioned on this page and has thence remained nebulous here, I’ll venture to assume you mean brainwashing myself with your feel-good literature. And since that’s what I’m taking it to mean, I’ll kindly decline your recommendation that I read some “real” books. As for that racial reality site, I posted it only for the genetic studies.
Anyway, at least this post of yours was more decent than some of your others have been.
Sceptic
Either you are one bad liar or one bad functional illiterate. E3B is found in the highest occurence in Africa.
Read:
Product Y – HAPLOGROUP E3b SUBGROUP SNP TEST
This product will be of interest to those who have been tested by our Product 1 or 2 or have a haplotype (e.g., 10 to 43 STR markers) which strongly points to haplogroup E3b, and who wish to have the Y chromosome tested for every marker that is not exceedingly rare or redundant and has been found associated with this haplogroup. The object is to locate the specific E3b subgroup.
Y haplogroup E3b is very diverse and can be found in highest concentrations in East and North Africa and scattered about Western Asia and Europe in various “hotspots”. For example E3b is common (e.g., 30%) in the Balkan countries such as Albania and some locations in for example Spain and Greece, but is frequently unobserved (or only at a few percentage points) in say Britain, Poland, Denmark and Norway. As a general rule its frequency decreases from south to north.
As with haplogroup J, likely some of the E3b found in Britain may have arrived there in Neolithic times with the advent and spread of farming; or may have a more recent history as a result for example of migrations from regions of the Roman Empire after the invasion of England in 43 AD. It is also one of the haplogroups found in relatively high percentages in those with Jewish ancestry.
………
Haplogroup E3b Subgroup SNP Test
More:
The human Y-chromosome haplogroup E is characterized by the mutations SRY4064, M96, and P29, on a background defined by the insertion of an Alu element (YAP+) (Y Chromosome Consortium 2002; Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003). Two of the three branches of haplogroup E, the major clades E1 and E2, have been observed almost exclusively on the African continent, where their distribution has been analyzed in detail (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002). The third branch, the clade E3, defined by the mutation P2, is the only one that has also been observed in Europe and in western Asia, where it has generally been found at frequencies <25% (Hammer et al. 2000, 2001; Semino et al. 2000; Scozzari et al. 2001; CinnioÄŸlu et al. 2004).
On the basis of the previously published phylogeny (Y Chromosome Consortium 2002; Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003), the mutations M2/P1/M180, on the one hand, and M35/M215, on the other, further subdivide E3 in two monophyletic haplogroups: E3a and E3b. Both haplogroups are frequent in Africa (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002), although, to date, only E3b has also been observed in Europe (Semino et al. 2000) and western Asia (Underhill et al. 2000; CinnioÄŸlu et al. 2004). Recently, it has been proposed that E3b originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleistocene (Underhill et al. 2001). E3b lineages would have then been introduced from the Near East into southern Europe by immigrant farmers, during the Neolithic expansion (Hammer et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001).
Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa