Genetic Linkages Between West Africa and Ancient Greece:
HLA genes allele distribution has been studied in Mediterranean and sub-Saharan populations. Their relatedness has been tested by genetic distances, neighbour-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses.
The population genetic relationships have been compared with the history of the classical populations living in the area. A revision of the historic postulates would have to be undertaken, particularly in the cases when genetics and history are overtly discordant. HLA genomics shows that: 1) Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and west Africans) also supported by Chr 7 Markers.
The gene flow from Black Africa to Greece may have occurred in Pharaonic times or when Saharan people emigrated after the present hyperarid conditions were established (5000 years B.C.).
2) Turks (Anatolians) do not significantly differ from other Mediterraneans, indicating that while the Asians Turks carried out an invasion with cultural significance (language), it is not genetically detectable.
3) Kurds and Armenians are genetically very close to Turks and other Middle East populations.
4) There is no HLA genetic trace of the so called Aryan invasion, which has only been defined on doubtful linguistic bases.
5) Iberians, including Basques, are related to north-African Berbers.
6) Present-day Algerian and Moroccan urban and country people show an indistinguishable Berber HLA profile.
Authors:
Arnaiz-Villena A, Gomez-Casado E, Martinez-Laso J.
Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain.
Tissue Antigens. 2002 Aug;60(2):111-21.
PMID: 12392505 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]
Well, can we agree that the “Middle East” and “sub-Saharan Africa” are two different regions? If so, then we should also agree that that this study and the findings of the Genographic Project seem to contradict each other. The Genographic project asserts that M35/E3b orignated in the “Middle East” (see the link I provided earlier), whereas this paper explains that the recently “proposed” origin of the haplogroup is “sub-Saharan Africa”. So it’s just your evidence against mine. Besides, this paper doesn’t prove any sub-Saharan migrations into Europe. The only E3b occurences in Europe arrived there either via the Near East or North Africa, not directly from sub-Saharan Africa. All lineages are ultimately African in origin, but that doesn’t make everyone in the world Negroid. Also, note that sub-clade E-M34 was “most likely” introduced to Ethiopia from the Near East during the Neolithic expansion:
“Although the frequency distribution of E-M34 could suggest that eastern Africa was the place in which the haplogroup arose, two observations point to a Near Eastern origin: (1) Within eastern Africa, the haplogroup appears to be restricted to Ethiopia, since it has not been observed in either neighboring Somalia or Kenya (present study) or Sudan (Underhill et al. 2000). By contrast, E-M34 chromosomes have been found in a large majority of the populations from the Near East so far analyzed (Underhill et al. 2000; CinnioÄŸlu et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004 [in this issue]; present study). (2) E-M34 chromosomes from Ethiopia show lower variances than those from the Near East and appear closely related in the E-M34 network (fig. 2D). If our interpretation is correct, E-M34 chromosomes could have been introduced into Ethiopia from the Near East.”
A back migration, making Horn Africans part Caucasoid. Also, the most prevalent sub-clade in Europe, E-M78a, is Balkan in origin, and no other sub-clade in Europe is directly from south of the Sahara:
“In conclusion, we detected the signatures of several distinct processes of migration and/or recurrent gene flow associated with the dispersal of haplogroup E3b lineages. Early events involved the dispersal of E-M78δ chromosomes from eastern Africa into and out of Africa, as well as the introduction of the E-M34 subclade into Africa from the Near East. Later events involved short-range migrations within Africa (E-M78γ and E-V6) and from northern Africa into Europe (E-M81 and E-M78β), as well as an important range expansion from the Balkans to western and southern-central Europe (E-M78α). This latter expansion was the main contributor to the present distribution of E3b chromosomes in Europe.”
So E3b is still not “quintessentially Afircan” due its complex distribution and history.
Sceptic
Very silly posting. You just keep embarrassing yourself.
According to Sceptic’s analysis: “Well, can we agree that the “Middle East†and “sub-Saharan Africa†are two different regions? If so, then we should also agree that that this study and the findings of the Genographic Project seem to contradict each other.”
According to Spencer Wells in his book the Journey of Man at page 106 (I know you rely on Spencer Well’s authority):
“…the Middle East has always been an extension of north-eastern Africa, to both the grazing animals and the humans that hunted them. This has been the case for millions of years…”
So when next you hear middle east…Sceptic think Africa!
I could cite you 100 more authorities that support that proposition.
Yemen is just across the Red Sea from Ethiopia. The Red Sea has never been a barrier between the two coasts since the coastal African people have long been sea faring (like the Phoenicians).
The Greek and Roman writers (Herodotus, Strabo, Tacitus) acknowledge that there was an Ethiopia to the east (so called Middle East) and Ethiopia to the West. The Ethiopians (Black Skinned Africans) lived on both sides of the coast.
The Yemenites, the Sabeans, the Ethiopian Amhara and Oromos are all one family. They are all black people, geographically, genetically and culturally continguous.
Go and do your research on E3B properly before seeking to engage your intellectual superiors on such matters which are way over your understanding. There is no well written and researched scientific article on E3B haplogroup that would not indicate that: (1.) It has its highest frequency in East Africa; and 2. that it originates from East Africa.
I cited more than three recent scientific papers for you. In return you “cut and pasted” for me some dumbed down slurp from some web-sites designed for popular consumption.
I even highlighted a quotation in the links you spammed which contradicted what you were arguing. Your own authority contradicted your position and still you want to engage me?
I cited Arnaiz’s research for you demonstrating genetic linkages between Africa and Southern Europe and you resorted to the infamous fallacy of poisoning the well. I invited you to cite a scientific article that discredits Arnaiz’s conclusion on merits and substance. You have not been able to do so.
Arnaiz is an authority’s authority, and his works will stand the test of time. He is equally a person of European descent so where would his bias lie?
It is sad you have never heard about this brilliant genetic scientist and scholar. Sad you have not read his works. Sad that you cannot find a scientific paper to contradict him on the substance of his thesis.
I am sad for you that you could be so specious just to defend the racial purity of your great mythical caucasiod pale skin race. No such category exists and all past reference to caucasiods have been discredited. See Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongloid.
Flashcard Data for Modern Human Variation
That demonstrates your limitations. Either you don’t know what you are talking about and are just trying to sound sophisticated or you are just ramping up your nuisance value.
I have advised you to go and study properly before making a mess of yourself on the Net.
Jahdey
ok here eritrea has been forgotten. it is ontop of ethiopia. it is eritrea that is opposite yemen (separated by the red sea) NOT ethiopia. eritreans and ethiopians are pretty similar but differ in language. most of the countries on the horn of africa are apparently closer to arabia than the rest of africa.
This is the typical debate on this topic. I do not see Skeptic using racist remarks, but Jahdey cannot refrain from them, so imbued is he with the Eurocentric white supremacist mindset which he pretends to disdain.
How many ways did Jahdey find to call Skeptic “white”? HA HA All meaningless. Science, Archaeology, the EVIDENCE all confirms that all these claims for African origins of nearly every civilization outside of Africa are bogus.
Egypt was black…Greece was not. Nor were the Berbers.
Jahdey is an example of a white racist in blackface: a minstrel-show racist. Such people should learn to examine evidence objectively, rather than engaging in spurious connect-the-dot history to bolster whichever supremacy it is their weak persona requires to attain some self-esteem. This nonsense only serves to make African studies look ridiculous and to further the racism which infests this world.
Cease and desist!
“greeks” are blacks..Madziri is name for “greeks” from Turkie..before 93 years..no Madziri in Aegean Macedonia..other “greeks” are from Africa..visit “Greece” and..you are in “Istabul”
Greek Revolution 1821 – 1829
American Philhellenes and the Greek War for Independence
Photography of Stelkaz
..ancient beauty..like Aleksander III king of Macedonia..Philip II..my ass..
Department of Forensic Genetics, Institute of Forensic Medicine, University of Copenhagen, Denmark. juan.sanchez@forensic.ku.dk
We genotyped 45 biallelic markers and 11 STR systems on the Y chromosome in 201 male Somalis. In addition, 65 sub-Saharan Western Africans, 59 Turks and 64 Iraqis were typed for the biallelic Y chromosome markers. In Somalis, 14 Y chromosome haplogroups were identified including E3b1 (77.6%) and K2 (10.4%). The haplogroup E3b1 with the rare DYS19-11 allele (also called the E3b1 cluster gamma) was found in 75.1% of male Somalis, and 70.6% of Somali Y chromosomes were E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12, DYS437-14, DYS438-11 and DYS393-13. The haplotype diversity of eight Y-STRs (‘minimal haplotype’) was 0.9575 compared to an average of 0.9974 and 0.9996 in European and Asian populations. In sub-Saharan Western Africans, only four haplogroups were identified. The West African clade E3a was found in 89.2% of the samples and the haplogroup E3b1 was not observed. In Turks, 12 haplogroups were found including J2*(xJ2f2) (27.1%), R1b3*(xR1b3d, R1b3f) (20.3%), E3b3 and R1a1*(xR1a1b) (both 11.9%). In Iraqis, 12 haplogroups were identified including J2*(xJ2f2) (29.7%) and J*(xJ2) (26.6%). The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population – closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya – with predominant E3b1 cluster gamma lineages that were introduced into the Somali population 4000-5000 years ago, and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa.
Evidence speaks for itself. The oldest underived E3b is found in places like Ethiopia and Somalia.
And the above source clearly shows that Somalis only have 15% eurasian genese. So its safe to say that Europeans are the real mongrels of this planet, and Africans their fathers, along with everybody else.