The Black Greeks — (by Prof. Clyde Winters)

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The Black Greeks

To deny the African origin of Grecian civilization the Eurocentrists attack Martin Bernal’s book: Black Athena. This book has nothing to do with Afrocentrism. In the two volumes published thus far, Bernal maintains that Semites from Phoenicia and the Semitic Hyksos speaking rulers of Egypt, took civilization to Greece, not Black Africans.

J.A. Rogers in Sex and Race, Parker, Diop and DuBois on the other hand, are Afrocentric scholars. These scholars have reviewed the writings of the classical authors, the anthropological, linguistic and historical evidence to reach the conclusion that the ancient Greeks were blacks and that the European Greeks learned the liberal arts and sciences from their “black ancestors” who first settled Greece and the Egyptians.

According to the Olympian Creation Myth the earliest groups to appear on earth were the Libyco-Thracians .The Libyans were Proto-Saharans, as were the original Thracians. Some Thracians were descendants of the Kushite and Egyptian troops established at Trace, by Sesostris (Thutmose III or Ramses II), when he conquered Asia and Europe.(Diop 1991; Winters 1983a,1984b,1985a)

Many of the so-called Greek myths are in reality historical texts which show the ancient lifestyle of the pre-Aryans in Greece and the transition from Pelasgian matriarchy to Greek-Aryan patriarchy. The term Amazon was often used by the Aryans to denote matriarchal societies living on the Black Sea. The battle between Thesus and the Amazons, led by Queen Melanippe, records the conflicts between the ancient Aryan-Greeks and the Libyans settled around the Black Sea.

Dr. Lefkowitz (1992) and Snowden (1992,1976) perpetuate the myth that the only blacks in ancient Europe were slaves or mercenaries. This is false the Greek historical works make it clear that many ancient settlers of the Aegean came from Africa , especially the Garamantes and Pelasgians. G. W. Parker wrote that: “I need not go into details concerning the ethnical relations of the Romans, since they, too are Mediterranean and are closely related to the same African confederation of races …[situated in Greece]. Aeneas, their mythical founder of Troy. The Aenead, like the Illiad, and Odyssey and all other of the world’s great epics, is the poetic story dealing with African people”. The heroes of these tales used long shields, the characteristic shields of the Indo-European speaking Greeks were round.

The Eurocentrists attempt to prove there was “considerable cultural and linguistic continuity from the twelfth century to the eight century BC” ,in the Aegean . Yet there is no way it can be proven that Indo-European Greeks have always been in Greece. This view on the continuity between the Linear B Greeks and later Greeks held by Lefkowitz is disputed by Hopper who noted that ” after all, so much which characterizes Minoan Crete seems wholly alien to later Greece, despite the efforts of scholars to detect ‘continuity’ ” ……..

Read more @: The Black Greeks

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50 thoughts on “The Black Greeks — (by Prof. Clyde Winters)”

  1. There weren’t no “black Greeks”. Stop living in fantasy world and come back to reality. Ancient Greek civilization has been Caucasian white not African Negro. Sorry but Winters is not legit ‘professor’ but someone who is spreading lies to make Afrocentric feel better about themselves by connecting them to European civilizations by the way of Greeks and Romans. And yes the Greeks did speak about race, they called black people Ethiopians “black faced” for a reason and it wasn’t because Ethiopians looked like the white Caucasian Greeks.

    1. Theo in Greek means “God”, so don’t get it twisted. Ethiopia still means “the land of the Gods”, just as Herodotus told we. Our ancient philosophers and historians, our historical Orthodox church, our Emperor Qedamawe Haile Selassie, and I man in the flesh all make testimony to the long and loving connection between Ethiopia and Greece. Do I self a favor: roll a likkle spliff, jam some Locomondo or One Drop Forward (Greek Reggae) and feel Irie, brother David.

      1. You post could not have been more ignorant and misleading…Ethiopia is indeed a Greek word, but it’s meaning is -like Dave said- the land of the dark people, and has nothing to do with gods or the land in which gods reside.

        The correct spelling in Greek is “AITHIOPIA” which is derived from the two words “AITH” and “OPS/OPSI” which in turn means “dark appearance” i.e. dark complexity of the skin .

        If you want to appear smart on the interwebs I suggest you focus more on reading about the Glorious Ancient Greek Civilization and less on jammin’ and “spliffing”.

        The labba-labba is over.

        1. Scott

          You are so fake. You say that AITH and OPS mean dark skin in Greek…you are a liar. The ancient Greeks denoted dark with the word “Mela..” like melanine the black gene which you fear so much; like melanesia the black asians; mela…not AITH. So show me other greek words where AITH is used as dark other than in your fake meaning of Aithppia. Atyopya is the land of the Gods …. Have no doubt. The ark of covenant rests therein.

          Now go back to smoking your meth.


          1. “So show me other greek words where AITH is used as dark other than in your fake meaning of Aithppia.”
            How can I show you other examples when you clearly don’t understand Greek? If you knew how to read Greek you would have found the etymology and meaning of the word and saved yourself from embarrassement!

            Visit these links :




            or click my name.

            If the links do not work do the following:
            Go to the Internet Archive [] search for the Liddell & Scott Greek-English dictionary and download the PDF.
            [sarcasm] Use your amazing knowledge of Greek [sarcasm] to find the word and then come here and let us know what it means.


          2. Scott

            Your response is a no show. That is the type of antics half-educated show-offs resort to when they are put on the line. You came to this website babbling fuckery about your knowledge of Greek and how Aithops means this and that. I asked you a simple question and I hereby repeat it:

            “So show me other greek words where AITH is used to mean “dark” other than in your fake meaning of Aithppia???” Athyopia is an African word of African roots borrowed by the Greeks. It does not mean burnt faces or black people. That is just another masonic myth. Ethiopia means children of Ethyops, or children of righteousness.

            Don’t post irrelevant and poorly research web-site materials for me. You can cite secondary sources all you like but what I asked you is to post me ANOTHER ancient Greek word where AITH expresses dark colour rather than the known Greek word for dark which is “melas”. Just answer my challenge.

            Answer this question directly or fuck off and go back to smoking your meth.


          3. Jahdey

            “So show me other greek words where AITH is used as dark other than in your fake meaning of Aithppia”

            Aithiops = Burnt face
            Aithali = soot (carbon particles not burnt completely
            Aithos = Burnt, fire-colored
            Aithon (use omega for ‘o’)
            Aithalos = Smokey

            I think you are smoking something.

          4. George

            Like all half-educated albino wannabes you just made a fool of yourself.


            According to you the root Greek word “Aithios” means “to burn, burning or fire-colour.” I accept that. Does “fire-colour” mean black to you?

            The Greek word “Ops” means face.

            Thus Aithios-ops could mean Fire-face, or burning face, or “to burn face”.

            So you see how insufferably stupid you come across with your show of ignorance?

            Mela means dark in Greek, like mela-nin, mela-nchros, melanpodes….

            The Greeks called the ancient Kemitians Egyptians, “melanpode” or black-feet to indicate their black colour.

            Mela is not the same as Aithos.

            You get the drift….

            Now go shack up with your fellow hilly-billies and smoke more meth…

          5. Meaning of Ethiopia:

            The name of this region has been derived, through the Greek form, aithiopia, from the two words aitho, “I burn”, and ops, “face”.


            But a different origin is claimed for the name by many modern researchers, some of whom say that the Greeks borrowed the word from the Egyptians, and that as early as the Twelfth Dynasty the Egyptians knew the land under the name Ksh, or Kshi. One form of this word, with the aleph prefix, Ekoshi (the Coptic eshoosh, eshôsh, ethosh) would thus be the real root-word.

            Others maintain that it is derived from the Arabic word atyab, the plural form of tib, which means “spices”, “perfumes” (Glaser, “Die Abissinier in Arabien und Afrika”, Munich, 1895), or from an Arabo-Sabean word, atyub, which has the same meaning. (Halévy in “Revue Sémitique”, IV.)

            See Catholic Encyclopadia:

          6. The word comes from the verb “????” (AITHO) (burn) and “???” (OPSI) (face, appearance) and means people with burnt faces, denoting their black faces. Another word is ?????? (AITHALI), meaning burnt carbon contained in the air.

          7. Wrong again. Aithali translates as soot, and an alternative translation is Kativa. You will agree with me that “Kati” even though used for soot is not a root word for black in classical greek. Same goes for “Aithali”. It may translate as “soot” but it does not mean black.

            If a classical Greek wanted to say black he would have used the Greek word Mauros, which meant black! Alternatives word is melas, as I have stated in melanin (dark pigment), melatonin (dark hormone).


            Why would classical Greeks use a a metaphor to describe the “black” (i.e. Athiopia- burnt faces – black) skin of an African when they already have better words to describe black and dark, i.e. Mauros and Melas. Have you ever asked yourself that? Do you recall Othello the Maur? It means Othello the black! Maur means black in ancient classical Greek.

            I hope that helped you.


  2. Actually, my heritage is Greek, I’ve studied Greek history extensively. I’ve also visited Greece, especially Crete where the Minoan and Mycennean civilizations where located. Those people where black. The words of the historians and mythmakers, the images on the pottery, it was all settled by Egyptians. Which is also how it is told in the book of Genesis, with Minoans called Caphtorim and Mycenneans called Casluhim, I believe. These where sons of Mizraim (Egypt), a son of Ham, brother of Kush.

    Greece was later overrun by Macedonians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Crusaders, and 400 years of brutal war with the Turks, before becoming free in 1930.

    Free Greek civilization has always been allied with Ethiopia and Egypt, trading royal dynasties, sciences, medicines, philosophy, stories and art: culture.

    His Imperial Majesty wrote and quoted at great length about the ancient and modern connections between Greece and Ethiopia in HIM autobiography.

    The architectural and anthropological evidence is there, the Biblical, the Prophetical, the mythological/psychological, even the genetic evidence is there in Mitochondrial DNA sequences. These tests and programs can trace back the genetic ancestry of a population–they all eventually point back to Africa: the Greek’s often and in great degree.

    Don’t try and slam the man’s well-reasoned article with that half-assed WASP-ey sounding shit. (I bet you’ll say it was the Pilgrims!)

    I hate to break it to you, but “Europe”, or that little peninsula of Eurasia we like to pretend is it’s own continent, has often been dominated by African peoples and civilizations, and for long periods of it’s history. Get over it and maybe you’ll learn more about yourself.

    1. I am an African American and just received my results for my maternal DNA ancestry. The NUMBER ONE Native Population Match has shown that I stemmed from CRETE, GREECE. My number one GLOBAL population match results has shown CRETE,GREECE. My number one World Region match has shown AFrican Great Lakes region with Aegean and Mediterranean coming in at number 5 and number 7 spot. So, what you say makes ALOT of sense to me. My DNA is a witness to it

    2. I agree as my family has bloodlines from caucasian, to African American, to Cherokee…Peaceat one time our skin color was not determined by how close we were to the equator. CM

    3. Well said, Ras Nikolaos. I am also Greek, and am proud to say that more and more young and educated Greek scholars have already accepted the Black African roots of Greek civilization. Indeed, the DNA reports from scientists associated with 27 leading universities throughout the world (including Harvard, Yale, Oxford) reveal a notably greater commonality between Black Africans and Greeks than between Europeans and Greeks. Greeks are the only “Europeans” to develop sickle cell anemia, and are subject to eleven different minor maladies (rashes, etc.) found in Black persons. The truth is there, and I proudly accept that.

  3. Nikoloas you are full of it. I have been to Greece and have a PHD in Greek civilization which very clearly shows through their works that they were white Europeans not black Africans. Science and DNA analysis has revealed and reconfirm time and again that the Greek population since ancient time and into modner times was and stil IS WHITE EUROPEAN since Minoan times if not earlier. I question if you are truely a Greek, more then likely you are a Slav from FYROMian because no true Greek would seperate the Macedonians and Byzantines from other Greeks like you just did. Three respected geneticists, Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Alberto Piazza and Neil Risch, argued that the scientific limitations of Villena’s methodology.[16] They stated that “Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.”, making specific allusion to the findings on Greeks (among others) as “anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups.” No multiple-marker analysis has ever duplicated Arnaiz-Villena’s results. In The History and Geography of Human Genes (Princeton, 1994), Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi and Piazza grouped Greeks with other European populations based on 120 loci (view MDS plot[17]). Then, Ayub et al. 2003[18] did the same thing using 182 loci (view dendrogram[19]).” Nature; MDS plot; Ayub et al. 2003

    1. Pure Babylon. Jah Know. Love yourself, David, and let the people tell their own story. Your beloved white supremacy don’t hold no cards in this day. This is the Lord’s Day. Want I to tell a story about Black King David?

      1. Ras, I would like to hear the story of the black David. Very interesting…and I’m neither
        black or white but pure native American.

    2. You don’t sound like you have a PhD. I only have a bachelors in history and religious studies, and my professors never sounded like you. Although, they’ll probably just listen to the debate rather than get involved. If modern theory of evolution is correct, anatomically modern humans arise out of Africa, Ethiopia specifically. So in essence, all civilizations technically rise out of Africa. Whether Greece was settled by African descendants 50,000 years ago or 5000 years ago, they come from Africa.

  4. Another thing Nikolaos if you were truely a Greek you would have known that the first people to call themselves European and the region they lived in EUROPE WERE THE GREEKS!

    1. Europa was a greek woman whom they named the European peninsula after. That doesn’t make her white, and it doesn’t make it a continent. See also Genesis 10 and the listing of the sons of Ham. Caphtor is the son who settled Crete, spawning the Minoans, the Zeus mythology, Hercules, even the Philistines in the middle east. Caphtor is also referenced in the book of Amos amongst the children of Ethiopia. I love you Dave, but no man has the right to challenge another man’s identity.

  5. Dave

    Honestly, you do not sound like you have a college degree talkless of a PH.D.

    Many Greeks carry HBS haplogroup 19 from Nigeria Africa. They have also been sampled for Y haplogroups A, E3B, DE, etc. See our section on Nigerian Origin of Ancient Greeks and perhaps you will begin to see connections that you have failed to observe.

    The first Europeans were Blacks from Africa who cleared the land and planted the farms. They came into Europe via Spain, and the Levant carrying African culture and DNA.

    Until 6,000 years ago, Europe was a completely Black continent phenotypically wise. The gene that caused your pale skin has been demonstrated to have mutated about that time and actually became pre-dominant in Europe perhaps 2,000 years ago.

    The rest of the white “Europeans” you talk about are recent arrivals. They came in less than 1,600 years ago from the Steppes of Russia for instance: the germanic tribes who the Romans reported were on the move from Russian steepes into southern Europe about 4th century AD, the Russ, the Slavs, the teutons, the saxons, the vikings, the engels,…all relatively recent immigrants to Europe.

    When did those tribes arrive inot western and southern Europe? Please answer!

    So why do you make bold to falsify history like that?

    You better know your facts before you make unsustainable claims.


  6. I suggest you get your facts straight and stop spreading fallacies. Afrocentrics need to stop trying to steal European white cultures like Greece’s that has nothing to do with black Africans just to make themselves feel better. Greeks have never been genetically black Africans, period. They have nothing in common with black Africans.

    Since ancient times and to this day black Africans are not the norm in Greece. A native Greek sees a black in Greece and knows right away the black person is not Greek but a foreigner. DNA analysis by scientists have proven that the percentage of Greeks who have Arabic genetic markers is less then 2%, tests have also revealed Greeks have less then .00000000000001% sub-Saharan African genetic markers. Studies done on the subject matter by Semino et al. [10] who studied DNA samples of Greeks from the whole region show that influences from the Middle East and North Africa in historical times are unlikely, and amount to something like less then 2% in total; in additional two specific haplogroups E and J which are frequent through out the European region, and can be used to detect population movements between Europe, Africa and the Near East, studies have found that less then 2.4% of Greeks belong in haplogroup E-M123 and 1.27% in E-M78. Clades of E prevalent in Northern or Sub-Saharan Africa were not found in any tested modern Greeks nor found in any DNA samples of ancient Greek skeleton remains. According to Cruciani et al. [11] most Greeks and other Balkan peoples from the region including the Slavs, Albanians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, etc cluster together and belong to a specific cluster group within a haplogroup that is found in lower frequencies outside the Balkans region and marks migrations from the Balkan areas, not into it. Haplogroup J which is also found through out Europe, is what most Greeks belong to J-M172 and its subclades which is associated with Neolithic population movements. (4) J-M172(xM12) distribution is consistent with a Caucasus/Anatolian dispersal route to southern & eastern Europe and may reflect the spread of Anatolian farmers; while (5) E-M78 and J-M12(M102) lineages would trace the subsequent diffusion of people from eastern Europe to the west. To put it in more simpler terms: thousands of Greeks gave DNA samples that were tested in seven studies, and out of that total only less then 0.1% are possible non-Caucasoid contribution to the Greek gene pool and 2% are of ME contributions. In other words Greeks have always been since ancient times closer related to the Caucasian peoples of the Balkans then any African/Semetic/Arabic or whatever other groups of people. The emerging picture of Y chromosome variation in Greece indicates genetic continuity, with slight influences from neighboring Caucasoid regions and virtually no influence from non-Caucasoids groups. The mitochondrial DNA of Greeks was examined and was found to be predominantly mostly with comprehensive European- mtDNA caucasoid, with a total precentage of less then 1.6% which come from Mediterranean-Eastern, Asian, N. African. The Greeks, like most Europeans are fairly pure in terms of their maternal ancestry.

    1. Many modern greeks originated in the many foreign nations who dominated Greece militarily over the last 2500 years: Macedonia, Rome, Arabia, crusading Rome, and Turkey. Slavemasters rape and create ruling classes from amongst their own people. Use your common sense to figure out the story. Race is an illusion, anyway, so your genetic markers don’t scare anybody. One Love.

      1. Ras
        I have been following this lively debate and enjoying myself. I do not have the knowledge to comment on either side but you both have motivated me to do some research.

        One thing though that you insist on repeating and is ERRONEOUS to the extreme is you your use of Macedonia and Macedonians. Get it it through your head Macedonia was founded by people from Argos and eventually conquered and assimilated the surrounding people creating the Empire we now know as Philip’s and Alexander’s. Present day inhabitants of the political unit officially known as FYROM are slavs and have absolutely nothing to do with Philip or Alexander who were as Greek as the Athenians, Boeoteans, Corinthians and Messinians. Sure they must have assimilated “foreign” blood lines with their conquests because Philip’s Empire covered areas of present day Albania, Northern Greece, Southern Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. Areas your johnny-come-lately present inhabitants of FYROM now claim as their own. These people are slavic in origin and came over one thousand years after Alexander’s bones were dust.
        I really get annoyed by the common usage (not the official one) of the term Macedonian/Macedonia. Nobody is denying your people a country but don’t go picking one that belongs to another nation and then use that to claim territory which doesn’t belong to you.

        You know Ras apart from you casual use of obseneties and lack of respect to your fellow posters I thought you had made some good points. Now however that I realize who you are I am thinking you are just trying to drag MY GREEK heritage into the mud with a carefully crafted story.

        I am sure some witty obsenity will be thrown my way so I have my “round” shield ready.
        Have anice day Ras.

  7. How many of you people ever seen “White” dirt? Where is it written “To be African one must be born below the “Sahara”? It very that over the course of time “Man” has migrated al over the known world and along the way he has mixed,mixed,mixed and continues to mix. How do any of you think “America” became America. I belive that the “Europeans” left their native country to spread their oat to other places and mix with the people that was there before they came. This the nature of the beast.

  8. So-called “white” people today apparently are unable to recognize that a “black” foundation can be whitened in a relatively short time. Any smaller population can be absorbed by a substantially larger population in just a few generations. Thus a hypothetical smaller ORIGINAL population of black Africans could indeed be diluted (and/or killed) by the influx of a larger and LATER “white” population. So it is possible for the two following statements to seem contradictory, but to actually be complementary: 1) descendants of a smaller original black population absorbed by a larger later white population can millennia later be classified as “white”; 2) modern-day Greeks, though classified as “white,” have an original black foundation. In other words, an ancient black people can have “white” descendants. I think that the real unspoken issue is which group, original black or white newcomer, had the advanced civilization? Well, it had to be the original black inhabitants. Why? Because there is a well-documented trail of advanced architecture and other technological marvels that leads one back through time to black Africa. For instance, the pyramids of black Egypt were built approximately 2650 BC. Well, at that time there weren’t any Hellenic (Indo-European) Greeks even in Greece or Crete yet. But there was a “Minoan” civilization already in Crete by about 3000 BC (“white” scholars seem to have difficulty explaining who the “Minoans” were and where they came from). There is no trail of equally old “Hellenic” pyramids in leading from what we call Europe to Crete. How about megalithic structures that were designed to allow the sighting of particular stars and constellations that were built 6500 to 7000 years ago in what is now Nabta, in Egypt (see Nature 392:488-491 (1998)). Did Hellenic tribes even exist that long ago? Had “white” people even appeared? We do not know (it would be a good idea to find out), but even if “white” people had appeared, they were not building stone observatories to allow the marking of the seasons by the positions of specific stars. Clearly the trail of technology leads to Crete from the south – Africa. If this logic is insufficient, how about DNA analysis, from Arnaiz-Villena et al. (Tissue Antigens 53(3):213-226 (1999)), who looked at HLA antigens : “Our results indicate that the Indoeuropean Greeks may be considered as a Mediterranean population of a more recent origin (after 2000 B.C.), while all other studied Mediterraneans (including Cretans) belong to an older substratum which was present in the area since pre-Neolithic times.” That “older substratum” had to be black people. How can I say so? Well, if the logic of the trail of technology and the DNA evidence are not enough, we can look at the oldest skeletal remains of modern humans in what is called “Europe.” One can examine the skeletal remains of a human being and determine whether the skeleton belonged to a black person or not: certain features of the long bones (e.g., the femur) and the shape of the skull, particularly the structure and shape of the jaw and arrangement of teeth, are sufficient to declare that a skeleton was that of a black person. Fossilized skeletal remains were found in the Grimaldi caves in what is now southern France, and these remains are approximately 40,000 years old. These remains were examined about 100 years ago by European scientists and declared “Africoid.” The original inhabitants of what we call Europe would be categorized as black today. The sources of the trails of archaeology, molecular biology, technology, and basic human logic all converge in black Africa. No one denies that in the c. 3500 years since low-technology Hellenic tribes arrived in Crete and Greece and interbred with the existing higher-technology black population, that there could have been later additional admixtures of genetically distinct peoples to produce what people today call “white” people or, in the case of this discussion, “white” “Greek” people. Again, black people can have “white” descendants (for instance, there are plenty of “white” people in the US who have recent African ancestry; there are many reasons for this, but one common one is the phenomenon of “passing.”). The problem is that so-called “white” people want to deny the existence of an original black African foundation (let alone subsequent and recent admixtures of African blood into “white” populations) for which there is ample evidence. So-called “white” people need to acknowledge that while they may refer to ancient Greece as the cradle of “Western” civilization, that cradle did not appear, like Athena from the head of Zeus, fully formed out of nothing. It was built on a previously existing black African foundation. The cradle of ALL civilization was black Africa. Is it so difficult to say that it stands to reason that the first people would naturally produce the first advanced civilizations, and that all others were built on that foundation?

  9. This guy (Winters) wrote a big long piece about how the real Chinese were black Africans.. Shows you his sanity level.

    Richard; the Grimaldi boy was NOT negoird, They stuck adult teeth into an adoloescent crania and accidentally created the only two ‘negroid’ features- big teeth and apparent prognathism. And they were never called Africoid.

    And; if black Africans founded everything why are all of the early crops and domesticated animals from Iran and Turkey? The crania from these sites look just like modern Asians, btw. All the early crops in Africa are Asian, not African.

    There has never been any DNA evidence or cranial evidence to support an African origin for Greeks (that Villenas HLA study was proven wrong by later HLA studies). Southern Europe was building small cities and discovering metallurgy about 7k ago, just as farming was introduced to Africa from the near East.

    SO culture and civillisation ddin’t come from black Africans.

    General note on the page… coastal mahgrebians have been mainly white people for about 10,000 years. The black proto Saharans (roundheads) never got out of the central Sahara. DNA studies on 12,000 year old coastal North Africans have shown them to be basically Eurasian not black Africans.

    I’d also like to point out to the ancients Africa was ONLY north Africa. The rest of Africa was called Ethiopia, and black Africans Ethiopians. There’s plenty of artwork from the Greco Romans, Byzantines and Egyptians showing North Africans as white, none shows them as black.

  10. LMAO.

    Jadhey, Europeans arrived about 20,000 years before farming was discovered. That skin colour mutation only makes the difference between Southern and Northern Europeans. Asians don’t have it, and they are very obviously not black.

    You are a total numpty who knows nothing about history or genetics. Cro Magnon remains (26k old) have the same kind of mt DNA as modern Europeans. I can only assume you are doing this as a wind up.

    BTW, Greeks have E3b1a, not E3b.That particular Y DNA has never been found in Africa. Sickle cell is not indicative of admixture.

    Technically there is way more European ancestry in West Africans than African in Europe. Lets see, the Ouldeme have 95% R1b- a typically European Y chromosome. Cameroon has about 40% R1-which is Asian. So Europeasn and Asians founded all the West African kingdoms.

    A taste of your own pseudo logic.

  11. Mathilda aka Chacha the ignorant cat chats:

    “Jadhey, Europeans arrived about 20,000 years before farming was discovered. That skin colour mutation only makes the difference between Southern and Northern Europeans. Asians don’t have it, and they are very obviously not black.”

    Jahdey responds:

    “Is not known to you that the Black Europeans were the first to arrived in Europe? Has it not been proven with tested scientific methods that the colour, crania and skeletal morphology of those 20,000 years old “Europeans” all indicated that they were more similar to the Africans of today than modern Europeans.?” Brown skinned Africans from today’s Nigeria, and Cameroon and Senegal were in Spain 20,000 years ago. Brown skinned Africans (Black is a cultural signification not a biological taxon) from the area around modern Sudan, Ethiopia, Egypt settled today’s Palestine, Israel, Turkey, the Aegean Islands, Danube and the Balkans.”

    Mathilda the cat rants:

    “You are a total numpty who knows nothing about history or genetics. Cro Magnon remains (26k old) have the same kind of mt DNA as modern Europeans. I can only assume you are doing this as a wind up.”

    Jahdey rsponds:

    “The MTdna of Europeans of 20,000 years ago was African originated. The women of old Europe were not pink and pale like you Chacha, they were dark and brown like morden African-American and Latino women. Africans they were despite your vain and childish fantasies.” Go read the the works of Oppenheimer; and the book the seven daughters of Eve. My references are pale skinned Europeans and Americans with whom you identify.”

    Mathilada alias chacha the ignorant cat continues:

    “BTW, Greeks have E3b1a, not E3b.That particular Y DNA has never been found in Africa. Sickle cell is not indicative of admixture.”

    Jahdey responds:

    “Do you lack understanding or are you just too naive to known that E3b is the African father of E3b1a? You can not see the relationship or are you just playing dumb and dead?

    You can go read my demolition of your racialist brother Dave on the sickle cell gene. You are simply in denial, plain silly or a complete ignoramus if you do not realize that all genes are hereditary i.e. passed on from father to child. The presence of Hbss Haplotype 19 in Greece, Sicily and the rest of southern Europe is conclusive proof of historic population settlement from Africa into those areas. Scientists have pin-pointed the pharaonic times for this immigration. Go to a proper school Mathilda you old cukold, rather than cutting, pasting ill-digested internet chat room ideologies.”

    Mathilda aka Chacha shoots off:

    “Technically there is way more European ancestry in West Africans than African in Europe. Lets see, the Ouldeme have 95% R1b- a typically European Y chromosome. Cameroon has about 40% R1-which is Asian. So Europeasn and Asians founded all the West African kingdoms.”

    Jahdey responds:

    “Yes I know of that. Y-Dna in African is older than YDna in Europe. In other words, Africans were here before Europeans were born.

    Your so-called Black Africans walked this earth, a million years before the first pink and pale European appeared from whereever. By then Africans had established in India (via Andaman Islands), in South East Asia (via New Guinea and Fiji Islands), as far as China (if you understood that even the Chinese government admits that the first Chinese were Black people).

    Cameroon has underived R* gene Y-Dna not R1. R* is older than R1 since it is the only underived member of the R-lineage. Again you are mistaken. Again you need to use proper logic. If R* is related to, yet older than R1, then what does that tell you Chat chat ye ignorant cat.

    R originated in Africa. It is still in Africa. You need to understand that sex chromosomal Dna markers are not indicative of either colour or morphology or phenotype of the bearer. You can be brown as chocolate and still have R1a or R1b.

    Your implict fallacy is to suppose that R1a or R1b indictaes a pink and pale girl like you. No. It is simply a sex maker used to determine population relationship and movement.

    Africans have the most ancient and the most diverse genetic compositions. The origin of every lineage is in Africa. You will find all the lineages in their most underived forms in Africa. And the phenotype of the bearers are black Africans!

    So those your fancy named Cro Magnon, or fantasy ancient European kingdom founders are your deep repressed wishful thinking. But the reality is the African is the mother and father of all life, and all the civilization, kingdoms and religions.

    Your type came late. You must not be coveteous nor hateful.”



  12. Pr Christopher Ehret

    About Pottery:

    ” There’s another really interesting innovation in Africa: pottery. There are two places in the world which develop pottery really early. One is Japan, where you find pottery before 10,000 BCE, going back to at least 11,000 or 12,000 BCE. And then you’ve got pottery by 10,500 BCE in the eastern Sahara, and it spreads widely in the southern Sahara. Unlike the Middle Eastern ceramics, where you can see the development of pottery at every stage, the stuff we find in the southern Sahara is already great pottery. So there’s probably 500 years we’re missing from the archaeological record. So let’s say that pottery develops in the southern Sahara 2,500 years before Middle Eastern pottery. The Middle Eastern stuff does look like it was developed independently of the African, but ­ hey, this is really interesting! Africa is not too far away; there may have been some diffusion “…

    About Agriculture:

    “There are at least seven or eight ­ maybe eleven to thirteen ­ world regions which independently invented agriculture. None in Europe, by the way..One, of course, is in the Middle East, and many people still believe that this was the first, from which all the others developed. The idea of diffusion from the Middle East still lingers. That idea really can’t be sustained”

    “Here’s the point: agriculture was invented in Africa in at least three centers, and maybe even four. In Africa, you find the earliest domestication of cattle. The location, the pottery and other materials we’ve found makes it likely that happened among the Nilo-Saharan peoples, the sites are in southern Egypt. There is an exceptionally strong correlation between archaeology and language on this issue”

    Martin Bernal in Black Athena III The linguistic Evidence page 52 ; says :

    “..Natufian culture played an important rôle in the creation of Southwest Asian Agriculture…An early development of agriculture in southwest Asia can be seen from African skeletal traits and painted images among Natufians and early farmers ( çatal Hüyük and Nea Nikomedia)”

    Bernal says that there were Africans in Palestine, Anatolia (Modern Turky) and Macedonia…

    Many Africans skulls have been found in Europe, not only the Grimaldis…

    Dr Edouard Piette in 1902 presented africoid statues which he found at Menton ( South of France near Monaco and Italy ) , he describes one of them as follows :

    ” The face has Unmistakably Negroid features”

    See : Dr Edouard Piette : ” Gravure du Mas D’Azil et Statuettes de Menton” , 1902.

    Furthermore scientific reconstitution using modern forensic methods show The Cro-Magnon with Mulattoe features…

    Africa is Europe Mother and Father…

    Europa ( in greek : “Broadfaced” or ” wide-eyed” ) an African Princess ( 5th century Greek , Hesychios said that Europa’s name meant ” Dark one” according to ancient greeks tradition) sister of Kamos the Egyptian from Thebes or waset who gave Greeks their writing system…

    Andromeda daughter of Cepheus and Cassiopeia the king and Queen of Ethiopia was Herakles’ great-grandmother…

    Amphitryon and Alkemene , Herakles’ parents were of Egyptian origin.

    Herakles was an African Prince-Part Egyptian and Part Ethiopian according to the Greeks…

    And I’M SURE that Clyde Winters is right regarding the black chinese. When I was about 12-13 years old a I saw a documentary on French Television channel 2. Archeologists had found the Tomb of a Chinese Emperor.

    The body of this Emperor had remained INTACT ( he was physically preserved) which was a miracle, and I remember saying with surprise and ashtonishment to my big brother ” He is Black ! “. He looked like an Ethiopian not to a chinese…

    The French surgeons who studied his body found his name into his mouth ( a cubic piece of steel with chinese characters). They opened his head and the brain was also intact…

    I never forgot this documentary because he was black, with Ethiopian Features. And as a child I was puzzled by a black man into a Chinese emperor Tomb.

    My Dad recorded this domumentary with his VCR, I hope I’ll find it into his personal collection and save it on DVD.

    I think the Black chinese looked like the Elamites , the Dravidians or the Ethiopians of Mesopotamia and the Scholar Albert Etienne de Lacouperie in his book ” Western Origin of the Early Chinese Civilization” shows that some Elamites from Chaldea ( called Baks) settled in China with:

    – Sciences and Arts
    – Wrinting and Litterature
    – Institutions , Government and Religions
    – Historical Traditions and Legends

    The leader of this Bak tribe was called Nakhunte ( Modern Chinese Nai Hwang Ti) which doesn’t sound a chinese name.

    The Shang Dynasty may have spread from them.

  13. This isn’t the most compelling article that I’ve read on this topic — on this site or elsewhere. What else ya got? The standards for the explication of proof is usually much higher.

  14. Black-white contradiction is just for fools.In reality the Semitic-European rivalry is the historical fact of last 3000 years.Ancient Meditarranian was Semitic by its population,language and culture.The rivalry has been finished by Turks who conquered Arabs.Europeans are basically anti-semitic in a strict meaning of the word

  15. What is funny is to listen to all of these “athorities” and “psuedo scholars”. Obviously those of you claiming that Europe is civilzation is engineered by Caucasians are seriously in need of psychological help. I gues all of the prehellenistc madonnas of Arcadia, Ephesus, and Corinth don’t sound familiar. They are all black. The oldest Greek pottery depicts all of the GODS of Greece as black. No it was not a “style” or some symbolic representation of fertility or the Earth. If it were why do all Etruscan pottery show African features of the nose and lips. Even Diana of Ephesus is shown with an “afro” while Artemis of Ephesus “the replica” has been given European feautures. Europe comes from the name Europa, who was the sister of Cadmus. Cadmus came from Phoenicia. Phoenicia is recorded in the bible as a black civilization, along with all of the other biblical cities. Ethiopia is mentioned in the bible about 80 times while Greece is barely mentioned 5 times and that is not the beginning of the bible. Hell Diodorous Sicculus, Homer, and Herodotus describe Apollo and Heralkes as black as the night. Zeus is nicknamed Ethiops as in “black or burnt face”. If you wanne claim it’s afrocentrism then Solomon calls himself black four times in the bible in the Lament’s of Solomon, Job describes he is black from being in the Sun. Yeshua or Jesus was said to be the color of a burnt copper penny and hair like wool. I realize that many caucasians have been taught the same racist and backward education as African people, but the truth remains the truth. Hell even Gregor Mendle tells you we are the most Genetically powerful people on the planet. Our features are dominant to all other races. Just as with optics in lignt all colors combined make the color black, there fore every other hue, or racial nationality is merely a portion or segment of our DNA. Some of you have blonde hair, red, or brown, but ours is black, like our skin, and comprises all colors to make us more dominant than any other race genetically or otherwise. It is not to be crass but I am speaking from a perspective of science while most of you are speak from your respective opinions. Science does not lie.

  16. I have a masters degree in History while specializing in Ancient Classical Studies. I am currently in my second year of Law School.

    The reason I post my credentials is to explain that I have an extensive knowledge of the aforementioned topics. I will not re-post here often but I feel as though this board has the potential to uncover some interesting facts, as such I will try and add to this interesting debate.

    First and foremost before introducing anything new into this field. I want to address two members who have posted on these topics. Jahdney and Dave. It is clear that both of you are not in the pursuit of knowledge. You both answer the other with facts that do not get to the core of the issue. Furthermore, you rely on Strawman Logic, claiming relationships in etymologies that you have not studied or read. I advise the both of you to really read up on the areas that you are arguing.

    Another important point to consider for the both of you. Do not use explicit numbers that cannot be verified. I will give two examples why the both of you really need to be careful of your claims because numbers can easily be verified. Jahdney you claim that Black-Africans were here 1 000 000 years prior to White-Europeans. Homo-Sapien dates back at the most too 600 000 years ago. Dave you clearly have copied and pasted scientific data that does not conclusively prove anything. In fact you both point to DNA statistics that are based on contemporary scientists who clearly have construed facts on modern DNA collection.

    At any point, I will not deduce what I personally believe because I am interested in discussing ideas and truths. Unlike Dave and Jahdney I do not have an ulterior-motive. I advise all of you on this board to take what these two “Spin-Doctor’s” have to say. They will distort facts and statistics to serve their own personal motives.

  17. Dave it seems like to me you got your Greek information and history from White racists scholars and anthropologists. White people are not a “pure” anything. They are a mixture of Albino and Black African (Dravidian). They entered Europe from their home in Central Asia about circa 1200 B.C.

    So what did you think, White people came from another planet?

  18. Every time I hear someone try to show how so-and-so are the “real” Greeks… rather than the Greeks themselves.. I am reminded of Hitler’s bizarre racial theories. Nazi scholars claimed modern Germans were actually the inheritors of ancient Greece. It’s racism pure and simple. (imo even many that claim to be against racism are crypto racists)

    Those that typically promote this sort of racist gibberish have a perception of identity that is obviously based on some quack pre-20th century eugenic concepts of national races. Modern genetics has blown away these ideas but unfortunately these myths remain mainstream.(even at supposed reputable news papers like the New York Times sadly)

    Earth to your brains. An ethnic identity does not equal a race. Every nation and people are a genetic mix .”Greek’ is a cultural/linguistic affiliation much like “Jewish” or “Chinese” or “English” or “German”. (e.g. It was recently uncovered Hitlers DNA had recent inputs from regions traditionally non-Germanic)

    While modern populations do show biological traces of past populations the fact is every generation, receives genetic inputs from other ethnic sources. Thus the only thing truly meaningful to identity is culture (especially language). The ancient Greeks were culturally affiliated with Hellenism. They were not Africans…. not Germas..not Slavic… not “insert some crackpot with a political agenda here”. As Aristotle said. A is A. A is not B.

    If anyone claims to be the “real” Greeks… learn Greek, embrace Hellenic culture, and call yourselves Greeks. Otherwise you are about as Greek as an average Mexican is Mayan.

  19. lets put it this way
    If you were not born from a Greek father to pass down the Orthodox Religion then you are not greek…
    If you dont speak greek youre not greek..
    so keep debating theres no point because none of you have greek culture, but this is very amusing….By the way i have respect for all orthodox countries ethiopia included!!!

    1. there is no greek and jew, heathen and “people of the book.” black and white, as far as “races” are concerned. it’s all in our heads. either we were populated by aliens here and there, sprinkled separately, or we all descend from africa. our monkey-like forefathers were probably pink underneath their hair, so technically we would have been “white” monkeyman underneath the hair, but as we became more “man” we would have become more brown and darker. but as they shed their hair, they would have had to become darker to protect from the sun’s strength in africa.
      you do not need to speak greek to be a greek. even JFK said, “Ich bin ein Berliner” (although gramatically wrong). anyway, child, this wasn’t a debate over who can claim “greek” ethnicity.

  20. john henrik clarke vs mary lefkowitz the black athena debate pt1-15,if the artifacts dont lie the pedofile society is still in tradition today with greek fraternitys,those people was dark olive fo sure messin with children drew light in some artifacts,they ha all shades cause moors make what they call tge mulatto ,the interacial today ,they would just bemoors back the still are right next to akebulan , why do african americans join tihs an free masonry to get their own knowledge they civilized the albion with back reversed cursed moors driven to negro in a black hearse civilitter mortues,,the inside of ur body is what u are ,skin must breathe like lungs u saw goldfinger .nationality has no color ,if u greek u greek if u italian u italian nigerian nigerian, look at ivory coast costians like united statesians ,,u can tell invasion ruules those lands of the muurs ,its actual named by how much ivory has been exploited killin elephants for tusks,lotta gold to ,these are not original names of the land but nation state united nation names but in todays law black nor white is a nation-ality
    no seat in house black/white nation
    ality before the re its after the room in 5th dimensin for these thoughts,theseare todays nationalities in the un ,u will be droppped from these dimensions like a call if the negativity toward color that doesnt exist in exacct white or black does not cease and desist

  21. why african americans bacxk to colored joinboule greek frat houses in college , they will tell u moors wee first greeks ,,the mysti order of noble shriners says the most powerfull shriner in america in 1901 was coklored not a white man but book said cco
    ored man from chicago was in charge of alll lodges an knowledge of mystic sshrine johm g jones

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