The Fomorians
There are many oblique references to the presence of Black people in ancient Ireland. Ancient Irish mythology refers to the original inhabitants of the island as being a giant, sea-faring people called the Fomorians (Fomors), which means “dark of the sea”. According to the ancient lore, they were a cushitic people from the African continent. Often depicted as demons, they defeated the first few incoming waves of invaders, but could not defeat the Firbolgs, who settled the land and lived side-by-side with the native Fomors.
Those myths may have a factual historical basis. It is proposed that the Formorians were a real people who were in all likelihood sailors from the African continent.
Two more invasions, the first led by the godly Tuatha de Danaan, and the second by the Celtic Milesians, took control of Ireland, mixing together with the Fomorians until they were no more.
There are credible sources for the African association with Ireland. The most likely of these is that they were Phoenicians and/or Egyptians. The Phoenicians were Canaanites, which came from the line of Ham. Ham is the mythological ancestor of the Black nation.
The Phoenicians were also well-known for their sailing skills, and are said to have traveled to the British Isles, which they called the “Tin Islands”. Perhaps, before Ireland was a Celtic domain, which it wasn’t until a few centuries BCE, the Phoenicians colonized it. It is noteworthy that the name Fomorians sounds a bit like Phoenicians.
There is also a legend that an Egyptian princess, Scota, left Egypt with some followers and journeyed to Ireland. Legend has it that Egyptians left many ancient tin mines all over Britain but especially Ireland which was their major source of the valuable metal.
Another idea is that they were Taureg Berbers. The Berber language is Hamitic, and the Berber people live in an area from which travel to Ireland would be easily accessible. The Berbers perhaps set sail from western Morocco, and settled on Ireland before the Celts, making it their new home.
Moorish Science Temple founder Drew Ali teaches that Ireland was once part of a Moorish empire, and that the Irish are a Moorish people. Perhaps there is a common root between the “moor” sound in Fomor and the word Moor?
Selkies and Half-Breeds
Another Irish legend tells of the Selkies, a sort-of “wereseal” that is a seal during day, but a human by nightfall. Sometimes, in an Irish family of fair-skinned, light-haired people, a child is born with dark hair eyes, and skin, and is called a Selkie.
The concept of the Selkies appears to make subliminal reference to the half-breed children that resulted from the extensive miscegenation that occurred between the Celts and the dark skinned original inhabitants that they had met upon their arrival in Ireland.
Many people of Irish descent have distant and recent African roots, and these features can still be seen in the people and in the culture. There are some Irish people with Afros (just like Andre the Giant a late continental European wrestler with afro-hair). In Southern Ireland, some people, referred to as “Black Irish”, are noted for their strikingly dark features, as opposed to the fair-skinned, light-haired north.
Although many Irish descendants are particularly pale, they do have pronounced Africoid facial features, as well as dark brown eyes, and dark brown hair that is sort-of kinky, especially in moist conditions. A sub race of the Irish called the Bronn are noticeably Mediterranean (read: African) in features especially their hair.
In addition to all of this, Celtic music is distinctly different from the rest of Europe, and easily comparable to African music.
Black, Viking and Irish
Unlike Scotland and England, Ireland was never colonized by the Romans. As a result, Ireland remained relatively isolated.
The Vikings established port cities like Dublin. The Viking texts left stories and descriptions of African soldiers captured in Ireland whom they called blaumen[blue-men].
Most Viking references to ”black” in Norse would have signified having black hair as opposed to skin color but blaumen meant black skinned. Most of these blaumen were captured soliders from Moorish Spain. It was observed that:
“A prominent Viking of the eleventh century was Thorhall, who was aboard the ship that carried the early Vikings to the shores of North America. Thorhall was “the huntsman in summer, and in winter the steward of Eric the Red. He was, it is said, a large man, and strong, black, and like a giant, silent, and foul-mouthed in his speech, and always egged on Eric to the worst; he was a bad Christian.””
“Another Viking, more notable than Thorhall, was Earl Thorfinn, “the most distinguished of all the earls in the Islands.” Thorfinn ruled over nine earldoms in Scotland and Ireland, and died at the age of seventy-five. His widow married the king of Scotland. Thorfinn was described as “one of the largest men in point of stature, and ugly, sharp featured, and somewhat tawny, and the most martial looking man… It has been related that he was the foremost of all his men.””
What about Scotland and Wales?
“Any comprehensive account of the African presence in early Europe should include England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Scandinavia. The history and legends of Scotland confirm the existence of “purely Black people.” We see one of them in the person of Kenneth the Niger. During the tenth century Kenneth the Niger ruled over three provinces in the Scottish Highlands.
The historical and literary traditions of Wales reflect similar beliefs. According to Gwyn Jones (perhaps the world’s leading authority on the subject), to the Welsh chroniclers, “The Danes coming in by way of England and the Norwegians by way of Ireland were pretty well all black: Black Gentiles, Black Norsemen, Black Host.””
Ogu Eji Ofo Annu
Sources:
Ancient And Modern Britons, by David Mac Ritchie
Nature Knows No Color-Line, by J.A. Rogers
“What the Professor is saying is that Blacks have always lived in Somaliland. Blacks lie at the root of all that Europe claims to be, and all that it will ever be.”
Uh, how? That’s not what the quote you used claims (could you at least have given a proper citation, even?) One could use that quote to argue that the reverse is true – that Somalis are actually more closely related to Europeans than to black Africans. It claims that the skeletal features of Neolithic Britons and Northeast Africans are similar, which isn’t surprising.
“Both Ethiopians and Yemenis contain an almost-equal proportion of Eurasian-specific M and N and African-specific lineages and therefore cluster together in a multidimensional scaling plot between Near Eastern and sub-Saharan African populations.”
In other words, the people of the Horn of Africa have a significant amount of Caucasoid admixture from Eurasia, which means that they’re actually only kinda black, and the people of Egypt aren’t, and never have been black, either. Would assert to any one of these Egyptians that their ancestors were actually Negroid? eaay.org/conf06.htm. And how do “blacks” lie at the root of “all that Europe claims to be, and all that it will ever be”? Do you mean culturally? As in sculpture, music, or architecture? Or scientifically, technologically or philosophically? Can you point out anything comparable to Michelangelo’s Pieta, Mozart’s Requiem, or to the Versailles Palace anywhere in a truly black country? No, you can’t, because no such comparable treasures exist in black Africa. Have black Africans ever left Earth? Did they develop computer and satellite technology? What about the technology to study DNA or to develop the world’s finest automobiles? How about writing, even? Anything that compares to Einstein’s relativity, Freudian psychiatry or Greek philosophy, which, contrary to popular fantasy, isn’t “African” in origin? You think black Africans did all that? Okey-dokey. If you must feel your worth by pretending that white people have been profoundly influenced by black people, then go ahead. I don’t suppose you really matter as such a marginal individual, anyway. Science and intelligent people know better. You can keep lying to yourself and perpetuating your inferiority complex that way. Apparently, the white man still owns you, only now, the whip’s in your own hand.
“Scientists, archaeologists and others have proven that all men originated out of Africa and migrated all over the world, thus the original African were black, the original Europeans were black, the original Asians were black and the original Native Americans and Australians were black too, til a mutated gene came in and became an albino (white) and then mixing in creating red, yellow and other so-called sub races!”
Yes, all humanity did originate in Africa, but the original human inhabitants of Europe and the Americas weren’t Negroid. There’s even doubt that the original humans were Negroid according to the modern definition of the term, and it’s thought that whatever race they were has now vanished. That’s happened, you know. Also, white people aren’t albinos. Albinism is a genetic abnormality (that may occur among any race) in which the individual’s body is incapable of producing dermatological melanin. All white people have melanin (unless, of course, they’re an albino).
The point I was originally making is that Ireland (or any European country) doesn’t have “African” roots, neither culturally nor genetically. They may have ancient African ancestors, as all people in the world do, but that fact doesn’t make any white homeland, or any non-black homeland, the creation of black Africans. You people really should get lives, instead of making up history to try to convince the world that black people have done more than they really have. You’ll get a really bad reputation that way, if you haven’t already acquired one (and I suspect that you have). How do you expect other people to respect you when you challenge their true identity?
Ayannah Taylor – It is true that life originated in Africa. This does not mean everyone started off black, only that they started off African. That humans evolved surface differents – ie in skin colour, nasal structure etc – is only evidence that we spread into many different climatic zones. Africa is too varied a continent in terms of climate, topography etc to make assumptions about what the first Africans looked like. Africa is diverse, and so are we! Let’s not allow skin colour to dominate our thinking.
Jahdey replies the “Skeptic” Troll:
Again I ask, why do you hide under the cover of annonymity? Because you know that you are chatting rank foolishness, odious racism and extreme ignorance.
Now, Mr. Annonymous Skeptic is arguing that original Africans were actually white. Really? Then by your logic we both would have the same white African ancestor? Right?
If that is your logic then, why are you so mad that we have suggested that Africans your admitted ancestors and mine gave birth to Ireland.
Are you just mad because we had dared add a colour connotation to Africa? Are you angry at the term Black Africa? Should we then have used the term “white Africa”? Are you just then afraid of the term Black? Of the word Black? Yes, my little pitiful annonymous racist albino, you are scared of the term Black?
Why? Because you have no melanine even though you claim melanine? Now, this Mr. Annonymous claims to be both white (albino) and also melaninated. Interesting!
His ancestors are Celts as he had righteous claimed in his first silly commentary but now he is also of African ancestry. What next?
He also claims that Africans are caucasians. Now, now we have heard that before. But such idiotic comments are so counter intuitive that one can only dismiss them with a wave of hand without further ado.
Your little revisionist neo-racist genetic anthropologic evidence that you cite are old racist arguments re-dressed in new clothes.
Both Ethiopians and Yemenis contain M and N. Thus there is nothing Euro-Specific about that haplotype. Ethiopians are black Africans and lie geographically in the so-called subsaharan region. Ethiopia is the original homeland of the black man as demonstrated by Dr. Leakey (who discovered the oldest human African fossil in Ethiopia.) Yemenis also are Black people ethnically similar to many Ethiopians.
That said, there is nothing Euro-Specific then in gene haplotypes M and N. They are Ethiopic genes. As you have admitted that Africans are your ancestors anyway, it should then be obvious to you that haplotypes M and N left from Africa to other continents. How ever your racist imagination is in denial. You would rather segmentize culturally and racially the self-obvious sameness of the black populations of Ethiopia and the rest of Africa.
There is nothing specifically African specific in the so called African-specific lineages because the EA and the EB haplotypes also predominate in the southern populations of Europe such as Portugeses, Spaniards, Italians, and Greeks and as far as the Irish people.
The only multidimensional scaling plot between Near Eastern and sub-Saharan African populations exists in the imagination of racist annonymous inadequate men and women, masquerading under whatever legitimacy pusedo-science can confer on them, to peddle racist garbage. Go read the sections of the blog on African Semites to disabuse your mind from confusion.
When racists are cornered with facts of black African cultural heritage shared by the entire world, they start seeing the black colour in terms of shades of white (i.e. they raise silly arguments like:the relative fairness of the Ethiopians which means black people, to the Congoleses).
When those same racists have to are asked to share equally in the material resources of the earth they begin seeing black colour in one shade. At such times, all prior designated shades of blacks become threats to them.
Africa is Ethiopia and Ethiopia is Africa. the present day modern capital of Africa is at Addis Ababa, the City of the Black Lion and the seat of the African Union.
Now, I will lecture you a bit on History:
It is said that the first men were Blacks because they originated in Africa, and had lived thousands of years before the appearance of the first white man. The Greeks thought so, the Romans held so, and the Ethiopians knew so of themselves.
The Black African is the first because he is most adapted to living on the hot continent where we all arose…Africa. Peoples of paler complexions suffer a great deal in Africa. Because the sun just burns them all up.
Mr. Skeptic, your America Doctors advise you and others of paler complexions to cover up properly while going outside in temperate North American climate. They are advised to keep away from the sunshine. If you seek cover in a temperate climate from the sun, how could your lily white arse have survived in sweltering hot Africa?
You would have burnt up and died of skin cancer. The pale skin originated in European paleness and cold. The black man has always lived in Africa and always will do. The law of natural selection makes it improbable that a paler complexion skin could have survived and thrived in Africa long ago and then vanished mysteriously.
Caucasian Race?
Mr. Annonymous, there is no caucasian race. that was a product of 17th century European inspired hubris and bladerbash. Pure humbug.
Pale skin is the result of years ice age living conditions which caused the African people that had moved over to Europe at that time to loose their original skin colour and become pale.
Subsequently, this substratum intermixed extensively with other conquering races and nations which at one timeor the other ruled the entire Europe. This would include historic African nations like Ethiopia, Egypt. Then there was Byzantine Empire, Morroco, Nigeria/Senegal (in the Islamic conquest era). Then there were the asiatics such as the Huns (Attilla the Hun), the Kazars (Askenazi Jews), the Turkmen (Turkmenistan and the Ottoman Empire), the Mongols (Genhigs Khan), and the Chinese (part of Genhigs Khan’s hordes).
The term Caucasian race was a political creation of peoples like Schlozer a benighted Germanic psuedo-philosopher of the baser racist rank.
They created that in the hey days of rape and pillage of resources of traditional people so that they could appropriate the cultural achievements of other people.
I will explain. Europe was a pale poor and wretched continent in the truest sense of it. It was a wild, savage, barbaric homeland of warmongers and cannibals. The inhabitants were incapable of any civilization until the last 800 years ago. The great Empires of Rome and Greece were uninterested in it as a result its foul climate, and intemperate tribes. They thus truned it into a pillaging ground for war practice and slaving.
2500 years ago, Herodutus tells us about the barbaric Sythians who predominated in Eastern and Central Europe. They allegedly dwelled happily in savagery, wickedness, cannibalism and human sacrifice. A most sorry tribe to behold.
There is recorded evidence of more than 2000 years of non-stop human sacrifice in Europe. All the boglands of western Europe contain bodies of ritually sacrificed victims, some old as 2000 years old and other killed as recently as 1950s.
This account of babaric savagery which reigned in Western and Central Europe was corroborated a thousand times in history by authors of classical literature and ancient text. Julius Ceasar thought the inhabitants of Brittany (Great Britain) to be peculiarly backward, and incapable of higher thoughts.
It was the Romans who named the European barbarians. They also first called the barbaric tribes of the Danube “goremen” or Germans. And then there were also the vandals your other barbarian lineage. Vandals because of their insolent and destructive nature.
It was the Greeks and the Romans who turned the entire Eastern Europe as far as Russia to a country of slaves. Plato in writing his great epic the Republic actually had the northern and western Europeans in mind when he spoke of naturally borne slaves who were only fit for hewing wood and fetching water. hence, the slaves (slavs) of Europe were much abused in Greek and Roman plantations.
Up to this very day the name of the entire white tribe that live from central Europe to Russia is the “slaves” or the French rendering “slavs”. They still answer to that proudly. Mr. Skeptic, who is owned by whom? Recall that there were no Roman or Greek slave camps in Africa.
Africa and the Mediterrenean
In ancient Rome and Greece, Africa was venerated and the focus and hub of each civilization was African Egypt. Ethiopian was seen as the home of the gods.
Those Mediterrenean civilizations disdained the so called western and eastern Europeans. They made them slaves, they called them sub-humans, and they controlled their population through wars. Why?
Because the ancient Mediterreneans did not consider themselves Europeans. They considered themselves to be one tribe of Africans. The Athenians claimed that their city was founded by Eygptians lead by Pharaoh Sesostris. Nearly all the ancient gods and goddesses of Greece were of African heroes of great antiquity. Zeus, Heracles, Demeter, Apollo, all were Greek names for ancient African heroes, whom they worshipped.
Almost all the famous Greek philosophers were educated by ancient Egyptian and Ethiopians – all Black African notwithstanding the wishful thinking of the likes of Mr. Inadequate skeptic Euro. Solon the law giver of Athens, was eductaed in Africa. While, Aristotle (another student of ancinet Egypt) declared that Mathematics was invented by Africans. Why did the Greeks not seek education in London, Paris and Moscow at that time. Because only barbaric races, half beast, half savage humans lived in western and northern Europe at that time.
Roman officers paid huge bribes to be reallocated from colonial duties in barbaric Europe to civilized pre-occupations in Africa. Alexander the great hence went to Africa and insisted that he be crown the King of Egypt because his real father was supposedly of the African blood lines.
The present day southern Italians and Spaniards know before anyone else of their Black African connections. Their sickle cell genes remind them should they seek to forget. Their EA and EB genetic haplotypes should remind them equally. Mediterranean European is not the same as the Alpine European nor the nordic Europe. They are of different originations. Different races.
The Mediterranean European comes from very recent African roots. Their brown skin, black eyes, and black and curly hair reveal the source of their origins. All modern genetic studies of the present day populations of the Mediterrenean confirm their African ancestry. Sustained mixture with the paler tribes of Euro-Slavia European Slave Territories of Rome and Greece) changed the demographics. It is interesting to note that, those paler type European peoples of the north used to call southern Italians, Greeks, Spaniards and Poturgese niggers in early 20th century United States.
African genetic haplotypes groups are prevalent and widespread in the entire Mediterrenean Europe. Africa dominates genetically in the mediterrenean areas of Europe because Africans were the first people to get to Southern Europe. The Aurignacians, Grimaldis were black African nations that gave birth to Mediterrenean (southern) Europe.
The Improbable Caucasian Race
So where then is the famous caucasian race? Where is its origin? Is it the present day caucasus area? No. A very different type of European than the slavs or the teutons live in the caucasus today.
So what is a caucasian? Noone knows? It is a loose term applied as a matter of political and cultural convenience by the slavs of western Europe to arrogate to themselves a pedigree which they lack.
Caucasian has been used for an Arab. Some inadequate boys of the type of Mr. Annonymous have applied the term to black skinned Indian like Sinhalese, and Tamils.
It has been used to describe Ethiopians, and Egyptians, creators of the most amazing civilizations in history living thousands of miles away from Northern Europe and being of the black skin Ethiopoid race.
Some bigger ignoramuses like King Leopold of Belgium and my little inadequate Annonymous friend have also claimed that Tutsis are whites, Fulanis are whites, Hausas (Nigerians) are caucasiods, Yorubas art workof Nigeria was equally claimed by skeptic and inadequate caucasians like Mr. skeptic. European weak kneed scholars have also claimed that the Kushites were whites, the ancient Zimbabweans were white.
Achievements?
Racists like Mr. Skeptic would claim that all those Black “but white” African built up the great African civilizations.
But sadly, there is not one ancient great civiliztion which originated in northern Europe. None. No pyramids, no great Zimbabwean court, no great artworks, no monumental ancient dams, or sculptures nothing. Just paleness and cold.
Europe did not invent writing, Africa did. Actually Africa had developed about 10 different writting systems of great sophistication. Africans were the first and greatest architects. Black Africans like Imhotep laid the ground works of mathemathics, architecture, stone masonry and medical sciences.
Chemistry is so called becasue it was a science discovered in the land of Chem (Khem) Egypt – Africa. The Canaanites a black group that lived in ancient Palestine gave the science of advanced ship building and sea travel to mankind.
Mr. skeptic, where were your ancestors in those days. Tomorrow people where is your past? Europe is but the youngest continent in terms of being civilized. It was in stark paleness when the other continents had made great advancements. Until 18th century, Europe was so ignorant that European Doctors still considered it dangerous to the health for one to take a bathe at least once a day.
What did northern Europeans achieve in antiquity, those celts, those teutonics and Germanics, those vandals, huns, and wretched vikings, what did they achieve 3000 years ago, 2000years ago, even 1000 years ago?
3000 years ago when my ancestors in Africa built the pyramid and mapped the stars, laid the foundations of science, government, religions and civilization, where were your ancestors? In some cave, hiding away from the cold?
When Africans sailed the seas and settled from India, to Philippines, where were the Europeans? Achievements? Been there, done that; what’s next little boy skeptic?
So returing to the theme of this section, there were various straggling barbarian tribes in ancient European. Some were more Mongoloid, like in the areas of old Russia, some more pale in skin tone almost albinos like the blonde and blue eyed Scandinavians, and others were very dark, like the mediterreneans.
These peoples do not represent a continous racial nationality. That they are considered one race today is because of political expediency created by the current European tribes who dominate discourse due to the great success their pirates had in destroying cultures and civilizations in Africa, Native Americas and China.
Conclusion
I doubt you have heard of Dr. Crees. Search her out and read her ground breaking work on the inherited albino genes found in many Europeans. Add two and two and figure out where your pale hatred is arising from.
If you are jealous of the Black colour, I cannot help you out. If you wish to advance your childish mind, humble yourself and learn with the elders.
Jahdey
See: Black Like The Ancient Europeans (April 1, 2006)
“Again I ask, why do you hide under the cover of annonymity? Because you know that you are chatting rank foolishness, odious racism and extreme ignorance.â€
Enough with the melodramatic introductions, Jahdey. Would it make a difference to you if I called myself “Strawberry Shortcake†or “Jack the Ripperâ€? We’re *online*, buddy – anonymity’s part of it. I’ve entered my name as “Skepticâ€. Deal with it. By the way, I’ve never attacked black skin the way you’ve attacked white skin, so it seems that racism is a bigger problem for you than it is for me. As for the “extreme ignorance†part, well, we’ll see about that.
Firstly I never argued that the original Africans were “whiteâ€. I just denied that they were Negroid and that they had black skin. As Steve Olson in “Mapping Human History†explains:
“Anthropologists have often speculated about the seemingly ‘European’ features of a number of groups in Asia and even the Americas, groups such as the Australian Aborigines or the Ainu. Now the connection among these groups is becoming clearer: they all mixed relatively little with groups that acquired the typically ‘Mongoloid’ features of eastern Asia. Thus the ‘Caucasoid’ features of various peoples around the world may simply reflect the features of the northeastern Africans who gave rise to all the people of Europe and Asia.â€
To support this, and also since I know you’ll be tempted to deny these “European†features in some Australian Aborigines and the Ainu (and others), I’ll provide visual evidence:
Australian Aborigine Evonne Goolagong
Australian Aborigine Aden Ridgeway
Australian Aborigine Troy Cassar-Daley
Australian Aborigine Anthony Mundine
Anthony’s father, Tony Mundine
Ainu, Ainu, Ainu, Ainu, Ainu
“Kennewick Manâ€, of Washington State 9000 BP
Maori opera singer Kiri Te Kanawa
So you see, some scientists hold that the early humans who colonized the world outside Africa were rather “Caucasoidâ€, instead of “Negroidâ€. Also, many argue that the first humans had light skin:
“The earliest members of the hominid lineage probably had a mostly unpigmented or lightly pigmented integument covered with dark black hair, similar to that of the modern chimpanzee.â€
“It is likely that the integument of the earliest protohominids was similar to that of our closest living relative, the chimpanzee, being white or lightly pigmented (PDF) and covered with dark hair.â€
Therefore, it is anything but unanimous that the first humans in Africa, and the ones who colonized the rest of the world, looked like black-skinned Negroid West Africans.“my little pitiful annonymous racist albinoâ€
This is my point. You have no room to be calling others racist.
“Why? Because you have no melanine even though you claim melanine? Now, this Mr. Annonymous claims to be both white (albino) and also melaninated. Interesting!â€
I’ll go ahead and assume what you trying to say here and repeat that only albinos lack melanin. If you didn’t understand that, then look up the term “albino†and learn what it really means.
“Both Ethiopians and Yemenis contain M and N. Thus there is nothing Euro-Specific about that haplotype.â€
Europeans aren’t the only white/Caucasoid people.
Queen Rania of Jordan
Farah Pahlavi of Iran
Dina Habib-Powell (her married name) of Egypt
Shireen Saif Nasr of Egypt
Nazanin Afshin-Jam of Iran
Andre Agassi (Assyrian and Armenian)
Mohammad Khatami of Iran
Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran
Ali Larijani of Iran
Mahammed A. Aldouri Iraq
Mohammed Al-Amili of Iraq
Feisal Istrabadi of Iraq
Jalal Talabani of Iraq
“Arab-American†Carol Chehade
Kathy Najimy, born to Lebanese immigrants to the US
Danny Thomas, also born to Lebanese immigrants to the US
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi of Jordan
Jacques Chirac beside Saddam Hussein
George W. Bush beside “a Saudi prince”
Hillary Clinton beside Iraqi women
Safia Taleb al-Suhail of Iraq beside Laura Bush
Iraqi women, Iraqi women, Iraqi women, Iraqi women
busts of Assyrian kings
Also, more on the not-so-blackness of the people of the Horn of Africa
“Africa is Ethiopia and Ethiopia is Africa. the present day modern capital of Africa is at Addis Ababa, the City of the Black Lion and the seat of the African Union.â€
I’ve already explained to you that not everyone in Africa is “black†or Negroid. Also, you try way too hard to sound like you know what you’re talking about. Just take a deep breath and try not to injure your brain.
“It is said that the first men were Blacks because they originated in Africa, and had lived thousands of years before the appearance of the first white man. The Greeks thought so, the Romans held so, and the Ethiopians knew so of themselves.â€
Support?
“The Black African is the first because he is most adapted to living on the hot continent where we all arose…Africa. Peoples of paler complexions suffer a great deal in Africa. Because the sun just burns them all up.â€
That’s why their skin darkened, and then lightened again as some of them left.
“Mr. Skeptic, your America Doctors advise you and others of paler complexions to cover up properly while going outside in temperate North American climate. They are advised to keep away from the sunshine. If you seek cover in a temperate climate from the sun, how could your lily white arse have survived in sweltering hot Africa?â€
It would have darkened, which is exactly what their “lilly-white arses†did. And no one says “keep away from the sunshineâ€. In fact, they actually advise sun exposure for about an hour a week to obtain adequate amounts of Vitamin D. However, *everyone* is advised to move into shade whenever their bodies tell them that they’ve had enough sunlight when it becomes uncomfortable, as all people are prone to heatstroke and sunburn and skin cancer, although some are more prone to the latter two than others are.
“You would have burnt up and died of skin cancer. The pale skin originated in European paleness and cold. The black man has always lived in Africa and always will do. The law of natural selection makes it improbable that a paler complexion skin could have survived and thrived in Africa long ago and then vanished mysteriously.â€
“Pale skin originated in European paleness†– LOL, okay, whatever. “Pale skin†actually didn’t, though, otherwise many Middle Easterners, North Africans; and south, central and east Asians (and Australian Aborigines, Polynesians, and Native Americans) wouldn’t have light skin. It’s “vanishing†from Africa isn’t mysterious, either, as I’ve already explained.
“Subsequently, this substratum intermixed extensively with other conquering races and nations which at one timeor the other ruled the entire Europe.â€
While there may be admixture in European populations from around the world, this hasn’t had a significant impact, and it’s the same case for most of the rest of the world as well.
This would include historic African nations like Ethiopia, Egypt. Then there was Byzantine Empire, Morroco, Nigeria/Senegal (in the Islamic conquest era). Then there were the asiatics such as the Huns (Attilla the Hun), the Kazars (Askenazi Jews), the Turkmen (Turkmenistan and the Ottoman Empire), the Mongols (Genhigs Khan), and the Chinese (part of Genhigs Khan’s hordes).â€
Europe has never been entirely dominated by outside forces. Also, neither Ethiopia, Egypt, China, nor the Ashkenazi Jews (who are of Hebrew, not Turkic, descent, as has been proven by genetic studies) have ever “conquered†any part of Europe.
“I will explain. Europe was a pale poor and wretched continent in the truest sense of it. It was a wild, savage, barbaric homeland of warmongers and cannibals.â€
What have you been reading? Firstly, these conditions have never been unique to any one part of the world. Secondly, Greece and Rome, and their people, were European, as could be described the Byzantines.
“The great Empires of Rome and Greece were uninterested in it as a result its foul climate, and intemperate tribes.â€
Is that why Rome expanded into it?
“They thus truned it into a pillaging ground for war practice and slaving.â€
No they didn’t. The Roman Empire tried to incorporate it into the empire, and Roman soldiers were the ones who suffered for that. The effort, obviously, was ultimately unsuccessful
“The inhabitants were incapable of any civilization until the last 800 years ago.â€
800 years ago? Please. First of all, the definition of “civilization†is elastic. There’s no solid and universally agreed-upon criteria for what constitutes a “civilizationâ€. But it’s accurate to call many European states that existed before the 13th century “civilizedâ€, icluding the Frankish Empire (5th-10th c.), the Holy Roman Empire (10th-19th c.), and Kievan Russia (10th-13th c.). The great cathedrals and the earliest universities of Europe were built and established prior to 800 years before the present, and prehistoric sites like Stonehenge and Newgrange predate all other civilizations. Also, these developments may prove interesting.
So what does black Africa (or most of the rest of the world, for that matter) have to say for itself for being “incapable of any civilization until the last 800 years ago [sic]â€? To understand why establishing a “civilization†isn’t a matter of “capability†but rather one of environment, read Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs, And Steelâ€.
“2500 years ago, Herodutus tells us about the barbaric Sythians who predominated in Eastern and Central Europe. They allegedly dwelled happily in savagery, wickedness, cannibalism and human sacrifice. A most sorry tribe to behold.â€
Yeah, well that’s Herodotus – he denigrated just about anyone who didn’t speak Greek. If his testimonies have value, then perhaps harsh evaluations of natives from around the world by European explorers are accurate as well? Herodotus’ writings don’t confuse scholars as they seem to have confused you. They know better than to take them as unbiased, objective observations that provide a totally accurate window to the past. Academia knows the Scythians better than Herodotus did, and they weren’t like that.
“There is recorded evidence of more than 2000 years of non-stop human sacrifice in Europe. All the boglands of western Europe contain bodies of ritually sacrificed victims, some old as 2000 years old and other killed as recently as 1950s.â€
Yet more wishful thinking. This may be true to an *extent*, but even if your statements were totally true, again, it’s not unique to Europe.
“This account of babaric savagery which reigned in Western and Central Europe was corroborated a thousand times in history by authors of classical literature and ancient text. Julius Ceasar thought the inhabitants of Brittany (Great Britain) to be peculiarly backward, and incapable of higher thoughts.â€
Again, bias negates the accuracy of these testimonies; and I’ll remind you, again, that outsiders everywhere have harshly evaluated others whom they didn’t understand, and that such behavior, if it existed, wasn’t endemic to a small corner of the world; and also that modern scholarship knows the Celts better than Julius Caesar did.
“It was the Romans who named the European barbarians. They also first called the barbaric tribes of the Danube “goremen†or Germans. And then there were also the vandals your other barbarian lineage. Vandals because of their insolent and destructive nature.â€
Actually, the word vandal is derived from the people, not vice-versa; and if any group was “barbaric†to the Romans, it was the *Berbers*, whom you apparently believe were black.
“It was the Greeks and the Romans who turned the entire Eastern Europe as far as Russia to a country of slaves. Plato in writing his great epic the Republic actually had the northern and western Europeans in mind when he spoke of naturally borne slaves who were only fit for hewing wood and fetching water. hence, the slaves (slavs) of Europe were much abused in Greek and Roman plantations.
“Up to this very day the name of the entire white tribe that live from central Europe to Russia is the “slaves†or the French rendering “slavsâ€. They still answer to that proudly. Mr. Skeptic, who is owned by whom? Recall that there were no Roman or Greek slave camps in Africa.â€
The entirety of Eastern Europe has never been unified as a country, and neither Alexander nor the Romans ever expanded past the Danube. Also, there were no “plantations†in in either of these empires, and slaves in the Greek and Roman empires came from all over, not just from Europe, and there were no “slave camps†established anywhere therein. The word “slaveâ€, by the way, has its origin in events that occurred in the 9th century, during the Holy Roman Empire, not in Classical Greek or Roman times.
“In ancient Rome and Greece, Africa was venerated and the focus and hub of each civilization was African Egypt. Ethiopian was seen as the home of the gods.â€
No it wasn’t. The “focus and hub†of the Roman Empire was the *capital*, Rome; and the Greeks revolved around their own cities, and even when Greece was unified under Alexander’s Empire, the “focus and hub†was on the homeland, Greece, not any part of Africa. You want to support your claim that “Ethiopian [sic] was seen as the homeland of the godsâ€, or are you just going to pretend that asserting something makes it fact?
“Because the ancient Mediterreneans did not consider themselves Europeans. They considered themselves to be one tribe of Africans.â€
They didn’t consider themselves “Africans†either. They had a concept of the Mediterranean, and identified with it. *All* non-Mediterraneans were outside the sphere of civilization to them. However, today, we know that Greece and Italy belong to Europe and that Egypt belongs to Africa.
“The Athenians claimed that their city was founded by Eygptians lead by Pharaoh Sesostris. Nearly all the ancient gods and goddesses of Greece were of African heroes of great antiquity. Zeus, Heracles, Demeter, Apollo, all were Greek names for ancient African heroes, whom they worshipped.â€
The Greek gods weren’t imports from Africa, and neither the Greeks nor the Romans “worshipped†any “African heroesâ€. You’re just making crap up, either that or you’ve been reading the work of others who’ve made crap up.
“Almost all the famous Greek philosophers were educated by ancient Egyptian and Ethiopiansâ€
No Greek was educated by either Egyptians or Ethiopians. They studied in their city of Alexandria in Egypt, which was a Greek city, inhabited and founded by Greeks, where thoughts and ideas flowed freely – that’s how scholarship flourished; and I’ve already revealed to you that the Egyptians have never been black anyway. No Greek ever studied south of that.
“all Black African notwithstanding the wishful thinking of the likes of Mr. Inadequate skeptic Euro.â€
This sentence doesn’t even make any sense.
“Solon the law giver of Athens, was eductaed in Africa.â€
All the inhabitants of which aren’t black-skinned Negroids.
“While, Aristotle (another student of ancinet Egypt) declared that Mathematics was invented by Africans.â€
So. Mathematics achieved levels of sophistication in India, Mesopotamia, China, Greece and Rome, and Mesoamerica that weren’t reached in Egypt.
“Why did the Greeks not seek education in London, Paris and Moscow at that time.â€
Because those cities didn’t exist then. Why didn’t they seek education in black Africa?
“Because only barbaric races, half beast, half savage humans lived in western and northern Europe at that timeâ€
Need I point out *your* problem of racism?
“Roman officers paid huge bribes to be reallocated from colonial duties in barbaric Europe to civilized pre-occupations in Africa. Alexander the great hence went to Africa and insisted that he be crown the King of Egypt because his real father was supposedly of the African blood lines.â€
“Civilized pre-ocupations in Africa� – no such things existed except in the white north, and Alexander was welcomed as a hero by the Egyptians for liberating them from the Persian Empire and was crowned the son of God by a priest of Amun at Siwa.
“The present day southern Italians and Spaniards know before anyone else of their Black African connections. Their sickle cell genes remind them should they seek to forget. Their EA and EB genetic haplotypes should remind them equally.â€
Sickle-cell anemia doesn’t indicate sub-Saharan ancestry. And Italians and Spaniards aren’t exceptionally Negroid “Mediterranean European is not the same as the Alpine European nor the nordic Europe. They are of different originations. Different races.â€
Nonsense. That’s only true if you ask 19th-century anthropologists, who liked to shatter one group, such as Europeans, into a million little pieces. As Steve Olson states:
“The cranial index played a large role in some of the most bizarre racial theories ever concocted. According to the most notorious of these, the people of Europe could be divided into three distinct races. The Nordics of northern and northwestern Europe were tall and fair and had narrow heads. The Mediterraneans of southern Europe were short, dark, and also narrow-headed. In between were the Alpines, who were short, brown-haired, and broad-headed. These categories have only the vaguest relationship to the characteristics of actual Europeans; in fact, people with all of these features can be found in every pert of the continent. Yet for a time these ideas were used to divide the people of Europe into racial categories just as rigid – and as damning – as the racial categories applied to the rest of the world.â€
No such divisions can be made among the people of Europe, and sometimes not even among the entire Caucasoid group. Take a look at those photo series from the Racial Reality website and try to divide those people into different races. You can’t do it.
“The Mediterranean European comes from very recent African roots. Their brown skin, black eyes, and black and curly hair reveal the source of their origins. All modern genetic studies of the present day populations of the Mediterrenean confirm their African ancestry.â€
All of this has already been refuted.
“African genetic haplotypes groups are prevalent and widespread in the entire Mediterrenean Europe. Africa dominates genetically in the mediterrenean areas of Europe because Africans were the first people to get to Southern Europe.â€
This also has already been refuted. There is genetic continuity throughout Europe because all native Europeans have a common origin. See Spencer Wells’ “The Journey of Man†to learn how anthropologists know that the first modern humans migrated to Europe from central Asia. There’s no indication of colonization of Europe across the Strait of Gibraltar.
“The Aurignacians, Grimaldis were black African nations that gave birth to Mediterrenean (southern) Europe.â€
There have never been any “black African nations†in Europe. The Aurignacian culture spread into Europe from the Middle East, not North Africa, the indigines of which are Caucasoid anyway. The only thing “Negroid†about the human remains at Grimaldi is prognathism, which was ubiquitous in early humans. Therefore, the Grimaldi remains are Cro-Magnon, rather than “black Africanâ€.
“The Improbable Caucasian Raceâ€
I’ll just skip over this section since you don’t even make a point here.
“Racists like Mr. Skeptic would claim that all those Black ‘but white’ African built up the great African civilizations.â€
You’re just cherry-picking counterarguments and confusing yourself about what *I’ve* actually said.
“But sadly, there is not one ancient great civiliztion which originated in northern Europe.â€
Nor has there ever been one in black Africa, and, as I’ve already shown you, white people have never been confined to Northern Europe.
“No pyramidsâ€
You mean like the Nubian ones that are the size of the average master bedroom and which the Nubians learned to build from the Caucasoid Egyptians, or the ones that were actually built by the Egyptians?
“no great Zimbabwean courtâ€
Which was built only in the 15th-century, and we all know what Europeans were doing at that time, as well as what they had already done.
“no great artworks, no monumental ancient dams, or sculptures nothing.â€
You mean like the Cro-Magnon cave paintings in France and Spain, which also exhibit the earliest known calendar? Or like the two great structures I’ve already mentioned, Stonehenge and Newgrange? Or the prehistoric figurines that can be found throughout Europe?
“Just paleness and cold.â€
Why does white skin bother you so much?
“Europe did not invent writing, Africa did.â€
No it didn’t. No place in Africa originated writing. Only three places in the world have: Mesopotamia, China, and Mesoamerica. From Mesopotamia, writing spread to Egypt and to the Horn via trade with Mesopotamian states. Appropriation was all that occurred.
“Actually Africa had developed about 10 different writting systemsâ€
Parts of northeastern Africa may have a variety of scripts, but that doesn’t mean that those people “invented†writing.
“Africans were the first and greatest architects.â€
But not *black* Africans. This assertion is debatable anyway.
“Black Africans like Imhotep laid the ground works of mathemathics, architecture, stone masonry and medical sciences.â€
Yet more fantasies.
“The Canaanites a black group that lived in ancient Palestine gave the science of advanced ship building and sea travel to mankind.â€
The Canaanites weren’t black. That’s just another negrocentric fairy-tale, and the Canaanites didn’t have a monopoly on seafaring technology.
“Europe is but the youngest continent in terms of being civilized.â€
No, that illustrious distinction goes to sub-Saharan Africa for persisting to the present without progressing beyond the Iron Age; and to New Guinea, Australia, Polynesia, and most of the Americas for remaining in the Stone Age, while Western Civilization has entered the Space Age. I’ll refer you again to Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs, and Steel†to understand why that is (and why your version of history is wrong).
“It was in stark paleness when the other continents had made great advancements.â€
I see, yet again, that white skin really agitates you, and that you’re quite ignorant of world history.
“Until 18th century, Europe was so ignorant that European Doctors still considered it dangerous to the health for one to take a bathe at least once a day.â€
Need we discuss all the many things of which black Africans have always been ignorant?
“What did northern Europeans achieve in antiquity, those celts, those teutonics and Germanics, those vandals, huns, and wretched vikings, what did they achieve 3000 years ago, 2000years ago, even 1000 years ago?â€
Well, for one, archaeology reveals that over 3000 years ago their ancestors had an advanced concept of astronomy, as evidenced by their many stone monuments. The Vikings, as of 1000 years ago and before, had independently mastered shipbuilding and exploration, and they wrote their history and mythology in prose (with their own script). Now, what did *black Africans* do at this time? Hmm? Perhaps I should dismiss anything done by the kinda-black people of northeastern Africa from the story of black accomplishment the way you exclude southern Europeans from that of European accomplishment. But you miss my point that I made when I became involved here in the first place, and that was to refute your claims that all European accomplishments are attributable to black Africans, which they clearly aren’t (none of them are, actually).
“3000 years ago when my ancestors in Africa built the pyramid and mapped the stars, laid the foundations of science, government, religions and civilization, where were your ancestors? In some cave, hiding away from the cold?â€
Your ancestors didn’t do those things, and responses to everything else you’ve claimed here have already been provided.
“When Africans sailed the seas and settled from India, to Philippines, where were the Europeans? Achievements? Been there, done that; what’s next little boy skeptic?â€
Been where and done what? You haven’t proven anything. What can you prove black Africans have ever done?
“So returing to the theme of this section, there were various straggling barbarian tribes in ancient European.â€
Actually, the “theme†of this section was “achievementsâ€
“Some were more Mongoloid, like in the areas of old Russia, some more pale in skin tone almost albinos like the blonde and blue eyed Scandinavians, and others were very dark, like the mediterreneans.â€
So now white people are “almost†albinos? Your consistency is impressive Jahdey.
“These peoples do not represent a continous racial nationality. That they are considered one race today is because of political expediency created by the current European tribes who dominate discourse due to the great success their pirates had in destroying cultures and civilizations in Africa, Native Americas and China.â€
First off, what is a “racial nationalityâ€. You just made up that nonsensical term. Secondly, all Europeans do belong to the same race, as I’ve already argued, and your diatribe of “political expediency†and “discourse†is incoherent and fallacious. There’s no “discourse†on the matter because people who don’t have an ax to grind can see these things clearly.
“I doubt you have heard of Dr. Crees. Search her out and read her ground breaking work on the inherited albino genes found in many Europeans. Add two and two and figure out where your pale hatred is arising from.â€
I know very well who Frances Cress-Welsing is, and I don’t buy her garbage (which is dependent on the Freudian school of psychology, by the way), and neither does the sane academic world, which is why her work isn’t “groundbreakingâ€. We’ve already discussed albinism, and it’s time *you* learn more about it.
“If you are jealous of the Black colour, I cannot help you out. If you wish to advance your childish mind, humble yourself and learn with the elders.â€
It seems that you’re the one who could use a dose of humility, Jahdey.
Very interesting! If you have ever seen children of interracial marraige between blacks and whites, you will have noticed that they frequently have red hair and freckles. Could this be where the red hair and freckles of the Irish came from?
There is no doubt of an African connection with Britain. Although it may be difficult to find hard evidence for the connection in pre-Roman Britain, it is certainly the case that during the Roman period at least two or possibly three Roman Auxhilliary legions were stationed in Britain. These Roman soldiers came from Ethiopia. Okay. Ethiopia has an historic connection with Britain certainly in the second century AD. More on this might be available from the British Library and/or British Museum. Clive – Brythonic Celt
“Very interesting! If you have ever seen children of interracial marraige [sic] between blacks and whites, you will have noticed that they frequently have red hair and freckles. Could this be where the red hair and freckles of the Irish came from?”
I don’t think so, Nanette. First of all, there’s no genetic evidence of an influx of sub-Saharans into Ireland. Secondly, red hair in black people is attributable to what’s termed “rufous albinism” and is caused by a mutation on the TYRP1 gene, whereas red hair that naturally occurs in some white people is due to the MC1R gene.
So it seems that red hair originated in Northern Europe, and is not due to a mixing of sub-Saharan and Northern European genes.
“These Roman soldiers came from Ethiopia.”
No they didn’t. The Roman Empire never expanded down into Ethiopia. Those soldiers were Nubian, but they were an “African” influence on Britain, not Ireland.