Who are these modern day Egyptians? By Moustafa Gadalla

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Moustafa Gadalla is an Egyptian-American independent Egyptologist, who was born in Cairo, Egypt in 1944. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering from Cairo University.

Gadalla is the author of eleven internationally acclaimed books about the various aspects of the Ancient Egyptian history and civilization and its influences worldwide. He is the chairman of the Tehuti Research Foundation—an international, U.S.-based, non-profit organization, dedicated to Ancient Egyptian studies.

From his early childhood, Gadalla pursued his Ancient Egyptian roots with passion, through continuous study and research. Since 1990, he has dedicated and concentrated all his time to researching and writing.

Who are these Modern-day Egyptians?

The Islamic Siege of Egypt

Many people wonder about the contrast between the highly civilized society of ancient Egypt, and the hapless, chaotic state of modern-day Egypt. Modern-day Egyptians are also loath towards their ancient history, as if they don’t belong to their ancient Egyptian roots.

Because of such a contrast, many people invent answers that have absolutely no scientific and/or historical basis whatsoever. Here are some of the baseless statements:

The Moslem population of Egypt (about 90%) are Arab settlers from the Arab Peninsula (Saudi Arabia.) The Christian population (about 10%) are the true Egyptians, referred to as Copts, and the descendants of the ancient Egyptians.

The Moslem population of Egypt is of a mixed blood, of ancient Egyptian and the Arabs who invaded Egypt in 640 CE. The ancient Egyptian “blood” does not exist anymore.

Read the article, The Christian Copts of Egypt to find the true un-Egyptian origin of the Christian population of Egypt.

As for the Egyptian population status, let us examine the worst turning point in Egyptian history, which was the invasion of Egypt by the nomadic Arabs in 640 CE and the subsequent Islamic siege of Egypt.

Jihad: The Islamic Terrorism

The nomadic invaders walked unchallenged into a weakened country (as a result of the Roman/Byzantine occupation) that did not have an army to defend its borders. When the Romans (Byzantines) left, the gates were wide open.

In the name of Islam, the nomadic invaders forced both their religion (Islam) and their language (Arabic) on the hapless population of Egypt. The strong grip of Islam has been, and still is, the “invisible” dominating power in Egypt.

Jihad is one of the pillars of Islam, and it was by jihad that Islam spread throughout the world. Jihad is stated very clearly and unequivocally in the Koran itself. Islamic jihad is an obligation for every Moslem to practice. The Koran specifies the conditions of jihad, summarized as follows:

Any Moslem must try to convert others to Islam, and if they don’t listen to him (in other words, don’t convert), then he is allowed to kill their men and enslave their women and children, or enslave all of them. Islamic jihad was the means by which black Africans were enslaved and sold worldwide.

Jihad is also allowed as a form of “self defense”, or to use a common expression, “pre-emptive strike”. In other words, the Koran allows a Moslem who “feels” threatened or that his belief and way of life is “threatened” by others, in any way shape or form, to kill and destroy his “enemies” in a jihad. This is a free-for-all clause.

Any Moslem is allowed/authorized to declare a jihad, against another born-Moslem, if in their view, the other Moslem is not being a “good Moslem” and can be killed or enslaved. This is a free-for-all clause.

The Islamized Cancerous Community/Country

The terror of Islamic jihad caused a quick and massive conversion after Mohammed gained power in the Arab Peninsula. Yet the state of terror did not end there. In Islam, a person automatically becomes a Moslem because his father is a Moslem. S/he never has a choice. The Koran is very clear, that if a Moslem apostate, s/he is to be killed. As such, no born Moslem has the luxury of arguing/leaving his/her “Islamic birthright.”

Lacking opposition, the Moslem clergymen tell the population that Islam is rational, logical, scientific, etc. Contesting such claims is not allowed, and is considered blasphemy, punishable by death from any Moslem. Witness the case of Salman Rushdi, being a born Moslem, he therefore does not have the luxury of writing a book, which directly or indirectly blemishes Islam. Salman Rushdi is a wanted man, by any Moslem, for he dared to write what was construed as opposition to his “Islamic birthright.”

The Rulers (Afrangi) and the Ruled (Baladi)

The silent majority of Egyptians are called (and they call themselves) Baladi, meaning natives. The loud minority of Egyptians (high governmental officials, academicians, journalists, and the self-proclaimed intellectuals) are described by the silent majority as Afrangi, meaning foreigners.

The Afrangi are the Egyptian people who compromised the Egyptian heritage to gain high positions and approval of foreign invaders of Egypt. As a tool of foreign forces, like Arabs, the Afrangi rule and dominate the Baladi–the natives. The Afrangi are, like their foreign masters, arrogant, cruel, and vain. After foreign forces left Egypt, the Egyptian Afrangi continued their role as the righteous rulers.

It has been written and repeated, that the Ancient Egyptians accepted the domination of the Ptolemaic and Roman rules, that they had willingly changed their religious beliefs into Christianity, and a short time later, they willingly accepted Islam as a substitute for Christianity. Accordingly, many conflicting sides, who use Ancient Egypt to promote each’s own agenda, insist that the ancient religion and traditions have died. The truth is that they never died, and they continue to survive within the silent majority–the Baladi people of Egypt.

Because of the ironclad control of Islam over history writing since 641 CE, Moslem historians publicize that Egyptians forgot their identity and became a part of a big happy family called “Arabs”. No one can dare oppose the line that Islam saved Egypt from previous Gahe-Liya (ignorance era). As a result, we witness an intellectual state of terrorism that conceals realities into a cloud of dust by the dominating Afrangi Egyptians.

The Egyptian Baladi (natives) have suffered from foreign rule (including and especially the moslem/Arabs) for about 2,000 years. They learned to survive. They kept the old traditions under a thin exterior of Islam, in order to survive the foreigners and their Egyptian Afrangi.

To grow up in Egypt, one is taught to accept the Koran as the “Book from God”. Both the Koran and the Bible condemned ancient Egyptians’ beliefs and the Pharaohs. No historical fact can contradict the Koran. The whole world’s knowledge of Ancient Egypt is largely based on the biblical (koranic as well) accounts of interaction between the Hebrews and Egypt. And as our “view” is mostly from these sources, it is largely negative.

A conflict between historical facts and religious convictions is very dangerous indeed. Because of such religious fear and intimidation, most fellow Egyptians do not appreciate their own ancient history, and as a result, they suffer from a self-imposed identity crisis. It is no wonder that the Ancient Egyptian history is studied almost exclusively by non-Egyptians.

The Arab (Islamic) Egyptian Police State

Contrary to the popular notion that Egypt is a “secular” state, its laws and actions show otherwise. Most oppressive measures go unnoticed in the world public opinion. The authorities of Egypt, at its highest level, are engaged in a pitiful campaign against indigenous traditions. An example can be found in a news item that was published in Al-Ahram (the largest newspaper in Egypt), in their Friday edition of 21 Apr 2000. For Al-Ahram to publish this, and similar items, on a regular basis, is indicative of a scare tactic campaign to terrorize the defenseless population of Egypt.

The police department in Cairo continued its efforts to find the outlaws and those who practiced magic, charlatanism, etc, when they arrested a “charlatan” (61 years old) who performs zars (exorcism, etc) at her apartment in El Waylee, assisted by another 8 persons. The article goes on to say that the lady, whose name is Sadeeka Hasan Mohammed Gad, convinced her victims, especially young women, of her ability to solve their marital and health problems.

There were three of these young women present at dawn when the suspects were arrested.

This police operation was in accordance with directives from the First Lieutenant to the Interior (Police) Ministry, who ordered the intensification of finding people who practice magic, …etc.

The above is a sample of the activities used to impose Islam on the people of Egypt, and suppress the indigenous beliefs of the Egyptians. In a democracy, other people’s views and actions don’t need to make sense to the thugs of the Egyptian Interior (Police) Ministry.

Because of religious fear and intimidation, the Baladi (silent majority) Egyptians learned to camouflage their ancient traditions under an Islamic exterior. This is described in their common saying, “playing with an egg (traditions) and a stone (Islamic authority)”, so as not to break the fragile egg with the [tyranny] of the stone.

The Christian “Copts” of Egypt

Copt is derived from the Greek rendering for an Egyptian. The Arabs, after 640 CE, used that general term to label the non-Moslems. As a result, the term Copt took on a different meaning by the 7th century.

Researchers of Ancient Egypt assumed WRONGLY that the Christians in Egypt (so-called “Copts”) are the link between Ancient Egypt and our present time. On the contrary, the Christians in Egypt are NOT natives of Egypt, but a foreign minority. This situation is explained herein.

When Alexander died in 323 BCE, one of his generals, Ptolemy, son of Lagus, took charge under the nominal rulership of Alexander’s brother Philip Arrhidaeus. Upon Philip’s death, Ptolemy declared himself the ruler. His actions initiated a Ptolemaic Dynasty.

Their new settlement, along the Mediterranean coast, was predominantly Greek, which was officially described as being ad Aegyptum, not in Aegypto, i.e. it was an intrusion into an alien country.
In Alexandria, Greeks formed the bulk of the population, followed in number by the Jews.

Greek became the mother tongue of the Jews in Egypt. Many Jews had been imported as soldiers, even before the arrival of the Ptolemies. For example, the Persians had established a Jewish garrison, as far south as the island of Philae, which had left behind some records in Aramaic.

When Palestine fell under the control of Ptolemy I in 301 BCE, he brought back Jewish mercenaries, who joined the already-established communities in Egypt. Unable to speak their native tongue, Jews, living in Alexandria, soon felt a need to translate their sacred books into Greek. They persuaded King Ptolemy II (285-247 BCE), to order a Greek translation of the Bible.

The High Priest of Jerusalem sent 72 elders to Alexandria, six representatives from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, together with an official copy of the Pentateuch.

They worked for 72 days to produce the final copy of the Pentateuch in Greek. Later, the other books of the Old Testament were also translated into Greek by others, and the whole work became known as the Septuagint, which means The Seventy. Since the Greek text is older than the Hebrew text, it was therefore adopted as the Bible of the early Church.

Ptolemy compensated his mercenary troops (Syrians, Greeks, Macedonians, Persians and Hellenized Asiatics) by giving them tracts of land among the Egyptian population in towns near the capitals of the provinces, into which Egypt was divided.

These pockets of foreign settlements are exactly where the Christian population is concentrated in present-day Egypt.

Romans & Early Christians in Egypt

When the Romans arrived in Alexandria, they gave preferred treatment to the Jews. Augustus granted self-government to the Hellenized Jews of Alexandria. This caused great consternation among the Greeks, who had lived there for a longer period of time. The Romans reinforced foreign settlement, by bringing in more foreigners. The Jewish colony in Alexandria is said to have had a population of 1 million in the 1st century CE.

Christianity arrived early in Alexandria, from Judaea and Syria. After all, Christianity is basically a Judean offshoot. The Romans encouraged and facilitated more immigration from Syria to Egypt.

Christian Rampage

In 312 CE, Christianity was made the official and only religion of the Roman Empire. A short time later, the Roman Empire split. Egypt became part of the Eastern (or Byzantine) Empire in 323 CE.

The decree that there be only one religious system (Christianity), and that anything else is untrue, is dictatorial. It allowed Christian fanatics to destroy the native Egyptian religious rights, properties, and temples.

When Theophilus was made Patriarch of Alexandria in 391 CE, he displayed tremendous zeal in destroying ancient Egyptian temples. A wave of destruction swept over the land of Egypt. Tombs were ravaged, walls of ancient monuments scraped, and statues toppled. In Alexandria, the famous statue of Serapis was burned and the Serapeum destroyed, along with its library.

When Theophilus attempted to convert a temple of Dionysus in Alexandria into a church, rioting between non-Christians and Christians ensued, the former occupying the great Serapeum. The subsequent destruction of the temple was shamelessly advertised by Christians as symbolic of a great victory. It was a folly of fanaticism in the name of orthodoxy.

The same year (391 CE) saw the beginning of legislation that aimed to outlaw ancient Egyptian rites and to close the temples. The laws helped the fanatic Christians destroy other temples.

No rational mind can accept that such destructive behavior led to “convince” people to convert to any religion (Christianity), as advertised by the fanatics, no matter how rational it (Christianity) may appear to anyone.

The fanatic early Christians went on appropriating ancient Egyptian temples. In the 4th and 5th centuries, many ancient temples on the west bank of Ta-Apet(Thebes) were converted into monastic centers.
Hatshepsut’s Commemorative Temple was converted into Deir (monastery) el Bahari.

Ptolemy III Temple was converted into Deir el Medina.

The Commemorative Temple of Ramses III was given the Christian
name, “Medinat Habu”.

The Court of Amenhotep III in Luxor Temple, on the east bank of Ta-Apet(Thebes) was similarly violated.

In 415 CE under Theodosius II, Patriarch Cyril expelled the Jews of Alexandria from the city; and Hypatia, the learned and beautiful Neoplatonist, was cruelly murdered.

Christian mobs forcefully took a part of the Temple of Het-Heru(Hathor) at Dendera in the middle of the 6th century CE, and built a new church, which was constructed between the Birth House and the Coronation House, using some of the blocks from the Birth House.

Similarly, in Khmunu(Hermopolis) a Temple of Amon was occupied by Christians and had part of its interior turned into a chapel.

In addition to the violation of Ancient Egyptian temples, the fanatic Christians adopted a new script called the Coptic language — basically demotic Egyptian written in Greek characters with a few additional letters — from about 300 CE. A non-Egyptian alphabet was intended for the use of those non-Egyptians who were schooled in the Greek language. This move had the effect of re-emphasizing the cultural divide between them and the true native Egyptians.

The Greek characters are not any easier than the Egyptian demotic script, which is yet another indication that the Church emphasis was on the Greek-speaking population of Alexandria, Fayoum, and a few other colonies of foreigners.

Egyptian Demotic Script

Greek Script

There is no archaeological evidence, outside Alexandria, to substantiate the Christians’ overly exaggerated popularity claims.

Accepting Christianity is to accept the Bible, which condemns ancient Egypt and establishes the Jews as God’s “chosen people”. It is totally incompatible with Egyptian history, nature, and traditions.

Christian Family Feud

The history of the political and doctrinal struggles within the Church during and after the 4th century has largely been written in terms of the disputes over the nature of God and Christ and the relationship between them. A good deal of the turbulent history of Egypt in the 4th, 5th, and 6th centuries can be understood in terms of the struggles of the successive (or, after 570 CE, co-existing) patriarchs of Alexandria to maintain their position both within their patriarchy and outside it, in relation to Constantinople.

Monophysites had, from the first, espoused a doctrine of Christ, which placed the greatest possible emphasis on his divinity, and came near to denying that he had a human nature. In 449 CE, Dioscurus, the patriarch of Alexandria, refused to accept the Byzantine Christian doctrine. He believed that Christ is totally divine, and that it is blasphemous to consider Him human. And so, when the orthodox theologians of Rome and Constantinople agreed at the Council of Chalcedon, in 451 CE, that Christ was to be worshipped “in two natures inseparably united”, the Monophysite opposition contended that though Christ could be “out of two natures”, he could not be in two natures. The depth of feeling involved is perhaps best conveyed in the slogan of the Monophysite bishops at Chalcedon, which said, “Throw out the Nestorians. Christ is God”. As a result, in 451 CE, during the reign of the patriarch Dioscorus, the Monophysite Church in Egypt broke away from the Orthodox Church, and elected its own patriarch.

Since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 CE, each of the two Churches had its own separate patriarch and administration. These parties were distinguished by the familiar names Jacobite and Melkite or Royalist.

The Jacobites were by creed Monophysites, by race mainly, though not exclusively people born in Egypt, but of foreign descent (mistakenly thought of as native Egyptians); while the Melkites were orthodox followers of Chalcedon and for the most part of Greek or European origin.

The term Melkite, as employed in Egypt, is of a Syriac origin, and there is no anachronism in using it before the Arab conquest. This is an additional piece of evidence that the early Christians were using Syriac language and names, indicating their origin to be Syria/Palestine and not Egypt.

Syrian migration to Alexandria constituted the bulk of the early Christians in Egypt. They — the Christians in Egypt — continue to maintain physical and personal traits that are very Syrian. It is easy for native Egyptians, to this date, to distinguish a Christian (so-called ‘Copt’), just based on his/her body language and features, which reflects peculiar Syrian (non-Egyptian) traits.

The Persian Interlude (616-629 CE)

The spread of Persian power throughout Syria culminated in the conquest of Jerusalem (615 CE) and Persian hostility to Christians, which thrust more Syrian Christian refugees westward to Alexandria.

The total chaos in Egypt eased the path of the Persian conquerors to Egypt in 616 CE. It took the Persians three years to control Egypt and Pentapolis.

The period of occupation was concluded by a peace treaty and Persian withdrawal in 628 CE, and the return to Byzantine rule.

Cyrus: A Taste of their Own Medicine (631-642 CE)

After the death of the Melkite Patriarch George, Cyrus was sent as Imperial Patriarch to Alexandria in 631 CE. He was given both religious and civil authority.

The double succession of pontiffs was maintained, and it was the early policy of Heraclius to bring about a reconcilement between the two Christian factions.

Cyrus first tried a compromise between the two factions (Melkites and Monophysites). The proposed compromise backfired from both stubborn groups.

Cyrus had to restore order, on behalf of his Emperor, for the Monophysites had terrorized and destroyed those who merely didn’t agree with their fanatic interpretations. Cyrus forcefully imposed the 451 Council of Chalcedon decree.

Did Cyrus prosecute the Monophysites, or did they ask for his actions by rejecting him and his authority? By extension, they had been prosecuting the land and people of Egypt (their host) for several centuries, and ironically, Cyrus, the Christian, gave them a taste of their own medicine.

Christians’ Gift to Mohammed

In 627 CE, when Mohammed, the Islam founder, consolidated his power in the Arab Peninsula, and felt himself strong enough to challenge the submission of the rulers of the world to Islam, his new religion, he caused letters to be written to several neighboring rulers, including letters to George, wrongly called the Mukaukas, governor of Alexandria and the Melkite Viceroy of Egypt (621-631); to Chosroes, King of Persia; and to Heraclius, Emperor of the Romans. All contained the same claim of allegiance to Islam and to the Arabian prophet as Vicegerent of the Most High.

The Monophysites, who never had any loyalty to their host country of Egypt, manifested such disloyalty when the Christian Viceroy of Egypt promised to consider the message, and treated Mohammed’s envoy, Hatib, with all honor. The Christian Viceroy sent back with his reply some valuable presents, which included two Christian maidens (Mary and Shirin), the mule Duldul, the ass Nafur, and a bag of money.

Mohammed, who already had nine wives, fell in love with Mary. The Christian Mary became Mohammed’s sweetheart and bore him a son. The baby died under suspicious circumstances. Mary died in 636 CE.

In December 639 CE, Amr ibn el-As set out to conquer Egypt with a few thousand men. His task was relatively simple, because of the active support of the Christian Monophysites, the so-called Copts.

After less than two years of fights and political maneuvering between the Arab invaders and the Byzantines, Cyrus went to meet the Arab commander at Babylon near Cairo, and both signed a treaty on November 8, 641, which called for the total withdrawal of Roman soldiers, imposing a tribute of two dinars a head on all able-bodied males, and a tax on all landowners. The only parties to the treaty were the Moslem Arabs and the Christians, who passed along a country that was not theirs.

History books end the glorious era of Ancient Egypt at 640 CE, when the Christians in Egypt sold it out to the Moslem Arabs.


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68 thoughts on “Who are these modern day Egyptians? By Moustafa Gadalla”

  1. Jzaidan

    You are new on this board and everyboard has rules. Rasta Livewire does not consider abusive the use of pink as a term descriptive for the colour of modern Europeans. Nor black as a descriptive term for African people. Scientific and medical journals use such colour descriptions all the time.

    Rasta Livewire permits intense, difficult and edgy debates. But do not forget civility. Do not get carried away. This is a moderated site, and rules will be enforced.

    You now have a free chance to respond. But rules must be observed, and strictly enforced. This is a moderated site.

    Don Jaide

  2. @Jahdey
    The only confusion that exists is in the mind of delusional people who cannot understand that there are more people on this planet than just blacks and whites. And even such terms are silly. “White” is not comprehensive or accurate since the Caucasus is NOT in Europe. The appellation Caucasian applies to a BROAD variety of people: Indo-Caucausian (West Asia; South Asia); Euro-Caucasian (Europe); Afro-Caucasian (Tamazgha or North Africa, from Morocco to Egypt). The Ashkenazim Khazars had the same delusion under Herzl & Weizmann’s Zionism, convincing themselves that they are genealogical descendants of Mousa & Haroun and the Progeny of Yaqub Isra-il. Look at the INJUSTICE and tyranny such false, delusional ideology has caused with the creation of the State of Israel. An unjust and unlawful state built under a FALSE PREMISE.

  3. @Rasta Livewire

    I couldn’t be farthest from being “beaten and broken”. Simply because I AM AN EGYPTIAN LIVING IN EGYPT. We PURE Misriyyin are INDIGENOUS North Africans of TAMAZGHA (Morocco to Egypt). Negrocentrism cannot change this anthroplogical, cultural, and historiographical FACT. It is actually a real cas study in neuro-psychology when a people CONVINCE themselves they are someone else. Just like the Eurasian Ashkenazi Khazars did to themselves, also.

  4. @Jahdey
    I assume you are Negro (Black colour in Latin), since I don’t know what Sub-Saharan nationality you are or which tribe you belong to? Senegalese, Congolese, Sudanese, Ugandan, Kenyan, Tanzanian, Namibian, etc. Are from Rwanda? Or are you a Hutu or Tutsi? Are you Masai? I have NO IDEA. However, I have made it clear that I am Misri or Egyptian. NOT an A’ARAAB. I believe already explained that in an earlier post.

    1. Turki

      I told you before that we do not humour trash talkers. You need to talk your disgusting self and move over to some Turkic websites where you can scratch each other’s balls and tell old wife Turkic tales to one another.

      You demonstrated a painful ignorance of Kemit Egypt, given that you had no idea that Kemitians called themselves Kememu (the black people) and went off on a ramble about silt sand, and black earth.

      You blew it when you demonstrated that you had no clue of the fact that ancient Greeks called the ancient Egyptians Melanopodes, black feet people. I had asked you a simple question before, do you Turkis have black fee or pink feet?

      Then you claimed you was now Amazigha without realizing that Amazigh people were the people of ancient Kemit. The Amazighs are more related to the Capsian culture which arose in Kenya, East Africa. Last time I checked Kenya was a black African nation. The Turks originated in Turkemensitan.

      Then you made a bigger fool of yourself by hurriedly copying and pasting Wikipedia article on Amazigh. Ignoramus, we asked you for scholarly peer reviewed article, and it appears you have no clue what that really means.

      Genetically the Amazighs are PN2 clade Y-DNA. They are squarely Africans who carry an African-specific range of Y-DNA from E3A to E3B, to a dash of R1*, J1, K2 and YAP+. The ancient Egyptians on the other hand were mostly E3A Y-DNA. That means that they were related with the tropical Africans of today.

      You did not realize that the Badarian culture was established by Black Muurish African Nilotics. You did not have any clue that Nubians and ancient Egyptians were one people. Abu Simel, the land of the Nubian Kemitians hosted all the most spectacular and important temples of Kemit throughout its history.

      Here is what scientists say:

      1) “Genetic continuum of the Nubians with their kin in southern Egypt is indicated by comparable frequencies of E-V12 the predominant M78 subclade among southern Egyptians.” (Hassan et al. (2008). Y-chromosome variation among Sudanese)

      2) Overall, when the Egyptian crania are evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish) versus African (Kerma, Jebel Moya, Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are the most appropriate comparative regions which would have ‘donated’ people, along with the Sahara and Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking to these regions for population flow (see Hassan 1988)… Egyptian groups showed less overall affinity to Palestinian and Byzantine remains than to other African series, especially Sudanese.” S. O. Y. Keita, “Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships,” History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54

      3) There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas.” (Nancy C. Lovell, ” Egyptians, physical anthropology of,” in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)

      You will be academically murdered on this website Turki, because you aer picking on people who have more education, more cognition, more exposure than you will ever have in one thousand life times. And really, no one here wants to waste time on you because your level is very very basic. You mis-match elementary terms, you are confused by names and concepts, you mess up timelines, and tell outright lies when you are stuck.

      Now, take your raw pink racist Turkish ass and go to some library and update you knowledge. And while you are at it, beg your grand-dada to tell you the truth of your real origins. Tell him you heard the truth from Rasta Livewire… and you are in shock.

      Welcome to Rasta Livewire… we are electric… we shock and burn ignorance!

      1. We must be careful not to fall for European tricks. The T/D-amazigh and Taureg may speak the same language (Tamasheq) but they are clearly of different ancestry. Maybe back in the day they were identifiable as one people but that is clearly not the case today. Tupak Shakur was Tuareg/African he looked nothing like present day so-called Amazigh. If we accept that the Amazigh’s in their current configuration are the original North Africans then we fall right into the European trap of an ‘outside civilizing force’ (White) for the inhabitants of the African continent.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Touareg-blacksmith.jpg

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tuareg_3.JPG

        http://ageddim.jeeran.com/archive/2007/12/399801.html

        1. Empress

          Maybe I did not speak clearly enough for my Turkish friend. I apologise. The fact that Tamazight people are black Muurish Africans cannot be contested by any sane person. There are more than enough articles on this site dealing with that issue. It is settled and done.

          My Turkic friend was making allusions to the Kabyles of Northern Morrocco. DNA has shown that this tribe of Tamazight people derive their genes partly from Gothic Europe. Many Kabyles carry some Gothic blood line as a result of Vandal invasion of North Africa in the 5th century AD.

          The rest of the Tamazight people are black Muurish Africans. They derive from the ancient Saharans and the Capsian culture of Kenya. Empress, only black Africans can live in the Sahara desert, inside Africa for 10,000 years. Who are they fooling? Skin cancer would have destroyed any pink flesh hanging around in the Sahara that long.

          All to say, that we entertained our Turkic friend there out of a need to educate ones like him whose heads are still filled with empty blusters and rank ignorance. He was made an example to educate other blind and dumb ones like him. In the normal course of things, we do not respond to such base ignorance and disgusting speech. But sometimes, the I and the I must have to kill cramp and paralyze the bad and the weak heart conception that seek to continue the shitstem.

          One love. Peace out!

          Jahdey

          1. I FEEL like I am in the twilight zone so much information and I have so much question so my apologize if I am asking to many questions

            but is it not possible that garments were used to protect them from the sun like the pale people in north Africa wear today? any links I can read on pale people coming to NA by invasion .

          2. Oh my god the part about jehad is so wrong jehad was an obligation only in these old days to save people from slavery and in the Islamic state if u didn’t convert to Islam u would pay an amount of money and practice ur religion freely and people would treat u the same .
            So the part about killing their men and enslaving their women is so wrong and the proof is that women have a really high state in Islam and Muslims or Arabs who beat up their wives or kids are violent people and do not represent Arabs or Muslims

      2. maybe you can help me out
        I was talking to a professor at my school and he said quote “”why are Nubians depicted darker than Egyptians when Egyptians depicted them if they were of the exact same appearance or “race”.
        The other problem is, you’re assuming no interbreeding between Nubians and people of a different appearance until after the start of the Old Kingdom. That’s a very long time, and is also improbable that those groups didn’t interact with people like Semitic peoples.”

        Is there a possibility that the ancient people of khamit were not 100% “black african” but were mixed with “black african” near easterns and Mediterranean people
        Could 5,000 – 15,000 thousands “Arabs” , Greeks Turks Romans change the genetic make up of a population in about the millions ?
        What was the group number figure of foreigners that invaded khamit ?

        Do you see the language as a cousin to Arabic
        Somilan , Chinese , Coptic
        Do you agree these are Afro Asiatic languages(including the language the ancient people of khamit spoke)
        Do you agree that other groups were helping to bring input to this society

        http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seated_Scribe
        I’m talking about before invasions is it possible that the pre dynastic king line would be from outside groups
        what s the history/truth about outside influences

        thanks in ahead

    2. This article is full of shit! Lies and false hood! THAT IS NOT WHAT JIHAD MEANS! Not WAR,Smh means struggle! & ancient Arabs at that time look just like Africans/Ancient Egyptians. THERE SO MANY INACCURACIES IN THIS ARTICLE!

      1. Thank you! This is ridiculous. Jihad is NOT a pillar of Islam. There are only 5, faith, charity, prayer, fasting, and pilgrimage. Jihad is indeed about overcoming the struggle within oneself. It does NOT mean war, unless it’s referring to war with one’s own good and bad natures.

  5. The Amazigh contend that they were responsible for the innovation or invention of the Lute like instrument. Well the people of West Africa have been playing the Kora for millennia, we know its their invention because the calabash is of African origin, specifically of sub-tropical Africa, so how is it that the North African Amazigh brought that knowledge to the West African people?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabash#Origin_and_dispersal

    It is a mystery as to how a species of African Calabash became domesticated in the Americas; its even proposed that it drifted across the Bering Strait despite the fact that its a sub-tropical species, all because Euro-scientist have determined that America was first colonized by Asians or Europeans. Despite the fact that the Olmec present themselves as negroid.

    http://bafsudralam.blogspot.com/2009/01/west-african-calabash-calendars.html

  6. @Jahdey (aka wannabe supernigger)

    You made an example out of no one. Except yourself. That you don’t even have chocolate salty balls.

    Our ancient Egyptian forefathers were wrong about two things: that the Nile flowed downward and that the Nile Delta was South, while our neighbours the Kushite Nubians(Sudanese) were to our North. The Egyptians never ever considered that rivers could flow upstream. The second item was that they thought Egypt was part of the Asian continent and bordered North Africa, which they called MESHEWSH. It is from the Old Egyptian Hieratic appellation MESHEWSH, which the Greeks adapted as MAZYES that the appellations MAZIGH & TA-MAZGHA are directly derived. TA-MAZGHA is the indigenous geographical NAME of North Africa. From Ta-mazgha comes the appellation of the A-mazigh(Berber) people (plural being I-mazighen) and the A-mazigh(Berber) language called Ta-mazight. It is ALL rooted in the ancient Egyptian Hieratic geographic name of North Africa which is MESHEWSH.
    Tamazgha is the indigenous geographic appellation of North Africa which was derived from the Hellenic adaptation MAZYES from our Hieratic MESHEWSH.
    the Amazigh “Berbers” are the first peoples of Africa between 3 Million to 700,000 BC Achaulean culture the Amazighs or Berbers were Cro-magnons or Aterian Race (Atlantico-Mediterranean Race) originated from 200,000 years they left north africa(Ibero-Mauresian expansion of the upper Paleolithic era) and returned after they beginning to conquer Europe again to 80,000 -30.000 years there was a great migration back to Europe/Eurasia from North Africa, taking care of large populations of North Africa called Amazigh (Atlantico-Mediterranean Race) or they found other North African civilizations and new expansion to the Mesolithic and Neolithic age’s to the Middle East and the Horn of Africa, their migration to these new destinations cause small unknown civilizations before the Neolithic age in the middle of the Sahara between Africa and the Middle East on giving birth to Afro-Asian languages such as Semitic languages,ancient Egyptian. influence by the language of the Capsian expansion appoint Tamazight language which is the mother language of Afro-Asian and Latin languages and Berber languages.
    origin civilization of Berbers population :
    inferior Paleolithic :
    Achaulean civilization 1.7Million years
    First burials Paleolithic-700.000 years
    Mesolithic expansion of Capsian north Africans towards Horn African and the Middle-East
    Genetics Evidence :
    Berber Haplotype E1b1b1
    related to CT and DE & his parallel mutations of CF..& specific berber mtDNA type :haplotype X, L(M,N) (U*U5)U6 of north african origin
    E1b1b Haplogroup (Berber Marker,E3b) is common in Mediterranian people (Iberia, south europe, Asia minor(Anatolians), North Africa usualy the population of Mediterranean sea coasts
    E1b1b is found in various forms in the Horn of Africa, North Africa, the Mediterranean, Europe, the Middle East.
    (E1b1b1 DNA forum)
    North African Amazighs/Berbers are of predominantly Sub-Mediterranean.
    Berbers are the indigenous peoples of North Africa. They are discontinuously distributed from the Atlantic to the Siwa oasis in Egypt, and from the Mediterranean to the Niger River. They speak various Berber languages, which together form ancient pre-historic langauges closely to ancient proto-egyptian, Minoan, Ligurian, and Elymian languages, of the Atlantico-Mediteranean language family. Between eighteen and fourty-five million Berber speakers live within this region, most densely in Morocco and becoming generally scarcer eastward through the rest of the Maghreb and beyond.

    Many Berbers call themselves some variant of the word Imazighen (singular Amazigh), meaning “free men”. This is common in Morocco, but elsewhere within the Berber homeland a local, more particular term.Historically Berbers have been variously known, for instance as Libyans by the ancient Greeks,as Numidians and Mauri by the Romans, and as Moors by medieval and early modern Europeans.
    The best known of them were the Roman author Apuleius, the Roman emperor Septimius Severus, and St. Augustine,
    During the pre-Roman era, several successive Independent States (Massaesyles, Massyles, Moors … etc) existed before the king Massinissa unified the people of Numidia.
    According to Arab historians of the Middle Ages, the Berbers are divided into two branches, two are from their ancestor Mazigh. In sum, the two branches Botr and Barnès are also divided into tribes. each Maghreb region is made up of several tribes. The large Berber tribes or peoples are Sanhadja, Houaras, Zenata, Masmouda, Kutama, Awarba, Berghwata … etc. Each tribe is divided into sub tribes. All these tribes have independence and territorial decisions.
    Several Berber dynasties have emerged during the Middle Ages to the Maghreb, Sudan, in Andalusia, Italy, in Mali, Niger, Senegal, Egypt … etc.. Ibn Khaldun has a table summarizing the Maghreb dynasties whose Berber Dynasties: Zirid, Banu Ifran, Maghrawa, Almoravid, Hammadid, Almohad, Merinid, Abdalwadid, Wattasid , Meknassa, ,,… Hafsides dynasties.

    1. ^Blah..blah..blah.. cut and paste from wikipedia. Lol. …

      I will show you how the original North Africa Berbers painted themselves 6,000 years ago. Melanopode, black feet people.

      Go here: http://wysinger.homestead.com/fresque2.jpg

      There you will find the picture of a Muurish Berber hunter black and magnificient, looking like many modern west Africans, about 5.5 feet in height, holds an arrow in his right hand and a heavy bow in the left in Tassili n’ Agger, Algeria, 6000 B.C.

      The Berbers, and the black Badarians of Egypt 6000 years ago: http://nubianart.net/nubian/pre-history-africa-the-badarian-culture/

      That was before you Turkis left Turkmenistan.

      Case closed.

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