146 thoughts on “Original West Africans Of Ancient Greece!!! The Black (First) Europeans III”

1. Dave

   You are an unmitigated ignoramus.

   Listen to your self:

   Dave squeaks:
   Graham R. Serjeant very clearly states the GENE for sickle-cell is MALARIA and not AFRICAN ANCESTRY, proven you wrong once again:

   JAHDEY HELPS OUT:
   Sickle cell is not caused by malaria Dave. Sickle cell is not a virus. Mosquitos do not give sickle cell, mosquitos only carry malaria parasites.

   Sickle cell gene is a DNA protein found on the chromosomes. Those genes cause sickle cell.

   Dave Squeaks more nonsense:
   The Sickle Cell GENE is therefore MALARIA and not AFRICAN ANCESTRY.

   JAHDEY HELPS OUT:
   Dave, I am embarrassed for you. Sickle cell gene is not malaria. Malaria is a disease caused by parasites (malaria plasmodium). Sickle cell gene is part of the human DNA which codes for red blood cells. Now, it is clear I am arguing with a grade 5 drop-out.

   More Dave garbarge:
   Even the Mosquitos who brought sickle-cell disorder to Southern Europe are not of tropical African origins:

   JAHDEY HELPS OUT:
   Dave, I am embarrassed for you. Sickle cell gene is not malaria. Malaria is a disease caused by parasites (malaria plasmodium). Sickle cell gene is part of the human DNA which codes for red blood cells. Now, it is clear I am arguing with a grade 5 drop-out.

   Wretched Dave unmasks himself:
   Sickle-Cell found in the Southern Europe has its origins in the Near East, not tropical Africa:
   “One of the two most frequent β-thalassaemia mutations in Mediterranean populations today, the B + IVS nt 110 mutation (G→A), which occurs in areas of Greek colonization in Italy, attains its highest frequencies today in eastern Mediterranean countries.

   JAHDEY CRIES FOR DAVE’S STUPENDOUS IGNORANCE:
   No Boy, Sickle cell gene haplotype 19 originates from West Africa. Sickle cell has four origins, one in India, and three in Africa. The sickle cell gene in Greece comes from Africa.

   But most tragically, Dave begins to talk of Thalassemia. Thalassemia is not sickle cell. Thalassemia is a disease cause by thalassemia genes. Whereas, sickle cell is caused by sickle cell genes. Two different things, two different diseases…this very conflation exposes you as some wretched wanna be scholar.

   That is it for you now. I have no more time for a someone who lacks the foundation and depth on a topic too senior for him.

   Go learn to read, write and spell. Go back to Grade 5 boy, hurry, before everyone begins to laugh at you…

   Goodbye Dave aka Mr.”Sickle cell is malaria” ….LOL!!! I trust you will not start running off your ignorant hogwash next time without doing sufficient research.

   Goo

2. Dave did Dr. Graves make this claim in a peer reviewed journal like European Genetics Journal or American Genetics Journal? If so, kindly provide us with the journal citations:

   Dave Wrongs himself again:
   “Contrary to popular belief, sickle cell anemia is not a black disease nor did it originate in West Africa. The gene responsible for sickle cell provides protection against malaria, so it is present wherever we find malaria. That includes Southern Europe, Yemen, India, East and West Africa and the Middle East, where it originated. The only reason we think of it as a black disease in America is because the slaves came from West Africa. If the slaves who worked the cotton fields of America had come from Yemen or Southern European, then we would have seen it as a Yemeni or a Southern European disease.-Joseph Graves, Ph.D.of Evolutionary Biology

   This is what Graves stated actually:

   Contrary to popular belief, sickle cell anemia is not a black disease nor did it originate in West Africa. The gene responsible for sickle cell provides protection against malaria, so it is present wherever we find malaria. That includes Greece, Yemen, India, East and West Africa and the

   Middle East, where it originated. The only reason we think of it as a black disease in America is because the slaves came from West Africa. If the slaves who worked the cotton fields of America had come from Yemen or Greece, then we would have seen it as a Yemeni or a Greek disease.

   SCIENTIFIC PEER REVIEWED JOURNALS STATE:

   The origin of the mutation that led to the sickle cell gene was initially thought to be in the Arabian peninsula, spreading to Asia and Africa. It is now known, from evaluation of chromosome structures, that there have been at least four independent mutational events, three in Africa and a fourth in either Saudi Arabia or central India. See Desai, D. V.; Hiren Dhanani (2004). “Sickle Cell Disease: History And Origin”. The Internet Journal of Haematology 1 (2). ISSN 1540-2649.

   JAHDEY SPEAKS:

   But ofcourse the fact that sickle cell has four independent occurence proves that it is not a Black disease and noone said it was a black disease. Genes that code for colour is the melanin.

   Sickle cell affects Indians, Greeks, West Africans, Arabs, so how could it be a Black disease.

   But Haplotype HBS 19 ( a very definite haplotype) which codes for sickle cell genes first arose in Africa. This Haplotype 19 has been identified in Greeks proving that Haplotype 19 made its way from Africa to Greece.

   The other haplotypes of sickle cell are: Indian haplotype; Cameroon Haplotype; Senegal Haplotype, and the Nigerian Haplotype 19 (aka Benin haplotype).

   Setting up a straw man’s argument is like hiding your head in the sand. Don’t pursue a point no-one made here. You began arguments about your black disease or not. Pinks like you sometimes have sickle cell genes but an analysis of its mutation will demonstrate if it is from India or Africa.

   The origin of the mutation that led to the sickle cell gene was initially thought to be in the Arabian peninsula, spreading to Asia and Africa. It is now known, from evaluation of chromosome structures, that there have been at least four independent mutational events, three in Africa and a fourth in either Saudi Arabia or central India. See Desai, D. V.; Hiren Dhanani (2004). “Sickle Cell Disease: History And Origin”. The Internet Journal of Haematology 1 (2). ISSN 1540-2649.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle-cell_disease

   It has been conclusively demonstrated that HbS in Greece is mostly haplotype #19 (the one that originated in Benin, Nigeria West Africa). See, Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas P.; The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Unit for Prenatal Diagnosis, Laikon Hospital, Athens, Greece.

   What is the claim here:

   Haplotype 19 is a gene that codes for the red blood cell.

   HAPLOTYPE 19 originates from Africa – Benin Nigeria. Why, because it is most prevalent there…standard method for deducing a gene’s origin.

   Haplotype 19 is found in thousands of Greeks (in addition to other haplogroups that Greeks share in similarity with Africans)

   And thanks for finally admitting that you are neither GREEK nor African, but a meddlesome Pinkie from Northwest jealous of the antiquated histories of Black and Brown peoples of Africa and Europe. You cannot lie about origins cause we told you already where you come from:

   The cold caves of Europe.

3. Jahdey I’m embarrassed for you that by the mere fact that you can’t comprehend what is being spelled out for anyone with some intelligence to understood. Jahdey I’m embarrassed for you that by the mere fact that you can’t comprehend what is being spelled out for anyone with some intelligence to understood.
   You make it clear to everyone that you don’t understand what the Medical Genetics Journals are stating because you make so little sense in your arguments. Over millennia, scattered groups developed distinct, they adaptive traits such as skin color and facial characteristics, they even produce maladies such as sickle-cell anemia. Different populations often take advantage of different alleles, which occur at random, to respond to evolutionary pressure, as has happened in the emergence of genetic defenses against malaria(sickle-cell) which are different in Mediterranean populations from those found in African populations. Its too bad you can’t comprehend simple human evolution concept.

   Let me put this to you in more simpler terms given you low level of comprehensive skills: Those pseudo studies you keep referencing such as that by Arniez-Villena from where the Tunisian study took its data, used a tissue antigen gene (HLA) for their study, not the highly regarded mtDNA or Y-chromosome markers. Autosomal DNA that is subject to population selection should never be used for making inferences about population ancestry. The use of this gene marker for inferring population history has been subsequently highly criticised by reputable genetic researchers (eg. L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza). Those pseudo studies were trying to falsely assert that Greek tissue antigen genes were like the sub-Saharan African tissue antigen genes, and quite unlike the tissue antigen genes found in Europeans, which is contrary to what all reputable genetic researchers have shown in their studies(i.e. that Greeks cluster with Europeans & other Caucasian populations and farther from tropical African populations). The authors of the paper also make some very naïve claims about the history of the populations they are talking about. Unfortunately, this faulty research has subsequently been used by groups and individuals(from Afrocentric to Supremacists and Nationalist interest groups) as “evidence” for their own political agendas, all of which have some very bizarre claims. The actual mtDNA and Y-chromosome data show that Greek haplotype frequencies are typically Mediterranean/Caucasian. Greek mtDNA haplotypes are the same as those found in typical European and Near Eastern populations as proven by the date found in the Supplementary data from Richards et al. (2000)-“tracing founder lineages in the Near Eastern mtDNA pool” Overall the Greek Y-chromosome haplotype frequencies are roughly intermediate between typical western European populations and Near Eastern populations. Oh and here is another little tibit that you might want to make yourself familiar with: that Arniez-Villena paper from where the Tunisian study took its data from was refereed to by tissue scientists that were ignorant of the fact that the use of the marker was highly inappropriate for population studies.

4. Correction for you, ‘boy’, Greeks were never part of your ‘black/brown’ people so that makes you the worst thieve in trying to steal their identity, culture and history.

   Those same SCIENTIFIC PEER REVIEWED JOURNALS STATE also state sickle-cell does not imply African heritage but your level of understanding such things is obvioulsy very low. Btw, you did not disprove anything by posting Joseph Graves, Ph.D. Evolutionary Biology who very clearly states: “Contrary to popular belief, sickle cell anemia is not a black disease nor did it originate in West Africa. The gene responsible for sickle cell provides protection against malaria, so it is present wherever we find malaria. That includes Southern Europe, Yemen, India, East and West Africa and the Middle East, where it originated. The only reason we think of it as a black disease in America is because the slaves came from West Africa.”

5. Dave begins to bitch and bellyache:
   Greeks were never part of your ‘black/brown’ people …

   JAHDEY SPEAKS: Ancient Greeks did not see themselves as pink-pale people. Greek origin mythology holds that Greeks are Africans and one can understand that when you consider the brown skin and curly hair of most real Greeks (compared to the mulatto children of Africans). See: http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/black-african-origin-of-the-ancient-greeks-part-3-by-anu-mauro/

   They believed all Pink pale peoples of the Germanic tribes were Barbarians.

   Greek cities were mostly centered in Africa and Near East.

   It is only in this modern times when all the old certainities have been turned up side down that we hear Pinkies like you associate themselves with the Greek civilization.

   Greek civilization was centered in Asia Minor, Near East, Egypt – Africa, Ethiopia – Africa, Maghreb – Africa.

   There were no Greek cities in England, nor in France, nor in Sweden or Holland or Germania.

   As an African descendant, I have more claims on Greece than you would ever have. Since Greeks considered themselves more kin to Africans (civilized people) than the uncivilized barbarians whom they so detested.

   So, boy…now you know.

   According to mis-educated David:

   “The gene responsible for sickle cell provides protection against malaria, so it is present wherever we find malaria. That includes Southern Europe, Yemenites, Indians, East and West Africa and the Middle East, where it originated.”

   All the people mentioned above are people of colour. Connected people with proven African ancestry. ((Moorish) Black and Mulatto Southern Europe, Black (Moorish) Yemenites, Black (Moorish) Indians, Black (Moorish) East and West Africa and the Moorish Middle East

   Here is why:

   Your own words:
   “The DE haplogroup appeared approximately 50,000 years bp in Arabia and subsequently split into HAPLOGROUP E THAT SPREAD to EUROPE and AFRICA……..”

   Al-Jahiz:

   “The Ethiopians, the Berbers, the Copts, the Nubians, the Zaghawa, the Moors, the people of Sind, the Hindus, the Qamar, the Dabila, the Chinese, and those beyond them…the islands in the seas…are full of blacks…up to Hindustan and China.”
   –Al-Jahiz, Book of the Glory of the Blacks Over the Whites

   Arab Yemenis/Himyarites: Black as the night and magnificient…

   http://www.hansrossel.com/foto…..ye_s27.htm

   http://www.hansrossel.com/foto…..ye_s25.htm

   http://www.hansrossel.com/foto…..ye_s29.htm

   http://www.blackjadeworld.com/

   Arab Omanis: Black as the night and magnificient…

   http://www.omanet.om/english/c…..Fold15.JPG

   http://www.foodmuseum.com/images/siffomanicook.jpg

   http://www.collectorsprints.co…..s_arab.jpg

   Arab Iranians (from the Ethnic Arab provinces of Iran): Black as the night and magnificient

   Iranians from the Region of Bandar Abbas

   http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/wo…..iran21.jpg

   http://pr.sv.net/aw/2005/March…..Pagea3.jpg

   http://www.payvand.com/news/07…..Abbas1.jpg

   Baluchistan and Sistan Province: Black as the night and magnificient

   http://www.persiatours.com/wom…..h-iran.jpg

   Black iranian from Chabahar Province: Black as the night and magnificient

   http://www.moezsoft.com/images/chabahar.jpg

6. A comedy of Errors:

   Dave whines on February 19, 2006 at 10:28 pm see above

   There is no black African genetic link found between you black Africans and white Greeks either in modern times or ancient. Stop living in a delusional bubble of misconceptions and lies. HBS haplogroup 19 is not found in any Greeks,

   February 20th, 2008 at 6:04 pm Dave eats his own vomit:

   If you actually read Segearnt article and not any old misinformation found on dubious online sites you would have known that he provides sources for Sicily, NORTHERN Greece…….

   Jahdey doesn’t even provide the correct sentence …but I will:

   “The Benin haplotype (HBS Haplotype 19) accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily,4 Northern Greece,10 Southern Turkey,11 and South West Saudi Arabia,6,7 suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa..”

   Sicily,#4 = source Ragusa A, Lombardo M, Sortino G, et al. ßs gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: Am J Hematol 1988;27:139-41. – implications for gene flow in recent times through North Africa.

   Southern Turkey,#11 = source Aluoch JR, Kilinç Y, Aksoy M, et al. Sickle cell anaemia among Eti-Turks: haematological, clinical and genetic observations. Br J Haematol 1986;64:45-55.

   David aka Mr “Sickle Cell is caused by Malaria” whines:
   Feb 21, 2008 at 3:41 pm:

   “Everybody came out of Africa…”

   Dave rants:

   “The DE haplogroup appeared approximately 50,000 years bp in Arabia and subsequently split into HAPLOGROUP E THAT SPREAD to EUROPE and AFRICA……..”

   Dave’s totally flips:

   ….the Mosquitos … brought sickle-cell disorder to Southern Europe are not of tropical African origins…

   The mouse that squeaked:
   Dave squeaks:

   Graham R. Serjeant very clearly states the GENE for sickle-cell is MALARIA and not AFRICAN ANCESTRY, proven you wrong once again…

   The Grade five drop-out:
   David Replied Feb 21, 2008 at 9:57 am:

   …E-M78β and E-M78γ show only modest levels of gene flow (from northern Africa to Europe and from eastern to northern Africa, respectively)…

   JAHDEY SPEAKS:

   Make up your mind boy. David (aka Mr.”Sicklecell is a Malaria Virus”) are you proposing or are you opposing or are you just moronic???

7. JAHDEY SPEAKS nonsense once post more dubious links again:
   “Ancient Greeks did not see themselves as Pink pale people.”

   David replies correctly:
   Ancient Greeks view themselves as a Caucasian European people, not Black Ethiopians=a Greek word that means Burned faced(African) people.

   More nonsense from JAHDEY:
   “They believed all Pink pale peoples of the Germanic tribes were Barbarians.”

   David’s corrections once again:
   Hate to break it to you but they viewed Black Africans as black Barbarians too.

   Wrong assumptions by Jahdey:
   “Greek cities were mostly centered in Africa and Near East.”

   David’s corrections again:
   Wrong, Greek cities were not in Africa, they were in Egypt, the Near East and Eurasian regions but given you know nothing about ancient history so your false assumption do not surprise me.

   Jibberish by Jahdey:
   “It is only in this modern times when all the old certainities have been turned up side down that we hear Pinkies like you associate themselves with the Greek civilization.”

   David’s answer:
   Its revisionist Afrocentric like yourself trying to steal the history and culture of a people that you have nothing in common with which is turning everything upside.

   More jibberish by Jahdey:
   “Greek civilization was centered in Asia Minor, Near East, Egypt – Africa, Ethiopia – Africa, Maghreb – Africa. There were no greek cities in England, nor in France, nor in Sweden or Holland or Germania.”

   Well Mr. Misinformed, Greeks never set foot in Ethiopia or Tropical Africa either. In fact the few Greeks who had any contact with black Africans they mistook for a “tribe of chimps”. That was the Greeks extent of contack with black Africans who they viewed different from themselves. There were not Greek cities in Ethiopia or tropical Africa. BTW nice try in trying to claim Maghreb as “black African” how pathetic you are.

   False assumption by Jahdey:
   “As an African descendant, I have more claims on Greece than you would ever have. Since Greeks considered themselves more kin to Africans (civilized people) than the uncivilized barbarians whom they so detested.”

   David’s answer:
   You have zero claim to Greece and Greek culture given Greeks never considered themselves a kin to Africans either in ancient times or modern times whom they called “burned faces”. They also viewed you as much as uncivilized barbarians as they did us. It is obvious you have not read any of the Greek works such as Plato, Aristotle, etc. whose theories of slavery were littered with essential anti-black prejudice ingredients that are found in both late European and Arab thought.

   More jibberish by un-educated Jahdey:
   “All the people mentioned above are people of colour. Connected people with proven African ancestry.”

   David’s repsonse:
   Sorry misinformed one but Southern Europeans, Asians and Near Easterners are not ‘people of colour’ nor do they consider themselves as black Africans or having any historic lineage to tropical Africans other then that “Out of Africa” theory which states every single human came from Africa including Northern Europeans. The out of Africa theory does not mean, as you so falsely have been claiming, that none black African people in the world have any culture or identity to you black Africans. Afrocentric like you are the worst thieves out there, trying to steal the history, culture and identity of people that you have no claim to. Not only that but you are a hypocrite, first you claim ‘skin color’ does not imply ones ancestry then post all these pseudo sites that show “black” Chinese, Arabs, Berbers, Hindus, Iranians. A total hypocrite.

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