African Moors: The Appearance of the Original Berbers According to European Perceptions – By – Dana Marniche

The Appearance of the Original Berbers According to European Perceptions

All the early major Berber tribes including the Masmuda, Sanhaja, Ketama Zenata and Nafusa are described as dark reddish brown like the “Indi’ or as “blacks” or Ethiopians in early documents. The notion of the early Berbers as being “whites” or Caucasoid is a new and racist one related to the concept of the African “Hamite”. Certainly the original Berber-speakers were never referred to as anything but “black” or something near it until the 12th century and were otherwise considered the color of Abyssinians and other so called “Indi”.

Kabyle Girl
Kabyle Girl

Even the Kabyles a notoriously fair-skinned “Berber” people of North Africa are up until the 19th century described as “brown” “apart from a few clans”. (See quotes below). The knowledge that Europeans were changing the complexion literally and figuratively of North Africa up until the 19th century has disappeared from modern European histories. Most know about the large part played by sub-saharan black slaves in the making of modern North Africa and Arabia while the white slave trade which was in fact dominant trade in North Africa until the fall of Constantinople (Istanbul in Turkey) in the 15th century had been largely ignored in historical writings of the 20th. Yet it was only a few centuries ago that Europeans visiting North Africa commenting on the fact that, “on almost every street of the cities of Barbary, Europeans could be seen harnessed to carts like draught horses or selling water from jars loaded on the backs of donkeys”.

1809 Commentary on those called “Moors” by an early 19th century observer: “They carry the Christian captives about the desert to the different markets to sell them for they soon discover that their habits of life render them unserviceable , or very inferior to the black slaves of Timbuktoo. “ from An Account of the Empire of Marocco, by J. G. Jackson published 1809 and 1814.

2003 – “From 1500 to 1650 when trans-Atlantic slaving was still in its infancy more Europeans were taken to Barbary than black African slaves to the Americas. See, Robert Davis Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800, MacMillan Publishers, published 2003.

The impact of the white slave trade and its contribution to the modern biology and appearance of the modern North African stems from before the Arabian and Muslim waves into Africa. The Roman ruler Claudian spoke concerning Gildo, the “Moorish” ruler of Africa and treatment of Roman women from the Levant by this North African chief and his countrymen:

4th century – Claudian wrote, “ when tired of each noblest matron Gildo hands her over to the Moors. These Sidonian mothers, married in Carthage city must needs mate with barbarians. He thrusts upon me an Ethiopian as a son-in law, a Berber as a husband. The hideous hybrid affrights its cradle.” Claudian, by Claudius Claudianus, translation by Maurice Platnauer, Published by G.P. Putnam’s sons, 1922 p. 113. (Gildo was brother to other Berber chiefs Firmus and Maseczel. Gildo is related to Aguellid or Galdi which remains the modern Tuarek word for chief. Masek, Amazigh ot Imoshagh was the name for the ancient and modern Tuareg clans in general. The Mezikes tribes were called “Ethiopians” in a Roman text of the time. )

berber-boy1
Kayble boy1

1stt c. A.D. – “Diodorus Siculus speaks in reference to the expedition of Agathocles a Sardinian general, of three Libyan tribes on the coast of Tunisia, the Micatani and Zufoni (see Zafan ),who were nomads and the Asfodelodi, who by the color of their skin resembled the Ethiopians” , p. 50 The Mediterranean Race Book XX, 38, 57 Guiseppe Sergi, 1901. The Micatani were also called Ukutameni and Khethim by Josephus. In later writings they are called Ketama Berbers. The name Maketa or Imakitan remains a name for the eastern branches of the Tuareg.

1st century A.D.– Marcus Valerian Martial was one of the earliest Europeans to use the phrase “woolly hair like a Moor” in one of his Satires, and the phrase was commonly used up until the Middle Ages. See Nature Knows No Color Line by J.A. Rogers, 1952. p. 50 The Muslim era didn’t begin until the birth of Muhammed, the Prophet, over four centuries after Martial. By the 7th century the word came to be used for Arabians who in the early era of Islam for the most part were also described as of near “black” complexion.

1st century Silius Italicus also describes the Moors with the term ‘Nigra’ meaning black. In the 3rd century Roman dramatist Platus or Plautus maintained the name Maure was a synonym for “Niger” which was a common term for the word black. 6th century Isidore Archbishop of Seville claimed the word Maure meant black according to Brunson and Runoko Rashidi in “The Moors in Antiquity” in Golden Age of the Moor, 1991.

6th A.D.- Corippus uses the phrase “facies nigroque colorus” meaning faces or appearance of black color to describe the North African Berbers. In his book Johannis, I/ 245.

6th A.D. – Procopius in his History of the Wars book IV contrasting the Germanic Vandals who had settled in North Africa with the Maures claimed the Vandals were not “black skinned like the Maurusioi” . The tribes he classified as Maurusioi are those now classified as ancient Berbers, the Numidians, Masaesyle, Gaitules, Massyles and Mezikes several other “Berber” tribes then settled between Tunisia and Morocco.

After the 8th century the term Moor came to be used for the many Arabian clans who had invaded the Mediterranean and Africa because of their complexions which were the same dark brown or near black to absolutely black color of the Berbers.
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1914 – Archeologists observance of the ancient North Africans portrayed in ancient Egyptian tomb paintings, “The brun Libyan type is the only one portrayed in the Old Empire, the xanthrochroids predominate in the New Empire representations.” P. 40 from The Eastern Libyan Oric Bates The intrusive xanthrochroids…do not appear before the XII dynasty… It safe to say that they were immigrants.” from The Eastern Libyans by Oric Bates Frank Cass publishers 1914. pp. 40 and 41. (These paintings of the ancient Libyans as a brown in color are in the works of Nina Davies.)

1939 – “The extreme long-heads, concentrated in the Hoggar and in parts of the Algerian plateau are the Tuareg and the purer families of ancestral nomadic Berbers, preserving the head form which they brought from East Africa, their Hamitic homeland.” Carleton Coon The Races of Europe, p. 257 1979 reprint.

Five major tribes of Berbers were spoken of by early Muslim writers including the Sanhaja, Masumuda Zenata, Ketama and Goddula which were categorized into dozens of others which in turn were divided into many more. Among them were the early Kabyles originally a group of Sanhaja Berbers. Most descriptions refer to the modern Kabyles as fair-skinned, but in the 19th century and early 20th, descriptions and in fact many photographs depict them as dark and near black. (Photos from the 19th century show both very dark-skinned and near white skinned Kabyle individuals from different villages in the region).

1890 – “The Kabyles or Kabaily of Algerian and Tunisian territories…besides tillage, work the mines contained in their mountains…They live in huts made of branches of trees and covered with clay which resemble the Magalia of the old Numidians…They are of middle stature, their complexion brown and sometimes nearly black.” Written in The Encyclopedia Britannica: Dictionary of Arts, Sciences and General Literature Henry G. Allen Company p. 261 Volume I 1890.

1834 The Scotsman Thomas Campbell says, “The Kabyles…dress like the Arabs and a part from a few tribes, are brown complexioned and black haired” p. 109 Barbary and Enlightenment: European Attitudes Toward the Maghreb in the 18th Century, Ann Thomson. Published 1987 by E. J. Bull

A description by Gillebert d’Hercourt in Etudes Anthropologiques sur Soixante-Seize indigenes de lAlgerie in 1865 said the Kabyle crania that were studied were generally dolichocephalic. In fact the physical anthropological studies done on ancient and modern North Africans show that early North Africans were dolichocephalic like the Tuareg and other dark-skinned berber tribes.
Not surprisingly most modern Berber-speakers who are fair skinned including modern Kabyles are predominantly mesocephalic (middle headed) or even brachycephalic. It is interesting that the dress of these modern Kabyle women resembles that modern women of the Balkans and that palm and blood group types are also like those of European Mediterranean Greeks. Many of these Kabyles also have a strong Turkish influence as judged from the recognizable Turkish Eurasian or even East Asian facial features. Obviously some groups other than a Berber one makes up the main genetic strain in many modern Kabyle-speakers. Culturally the modern fair-skinned Kabyles have been documented as among the most patrifocal people in North Africa whereas the ancient and modern Berbers like the Tuareg were notably matrilineal and matrifocal to the chagrin of early Muslim documenters who considered this among their ‘wicked” customs.

1901 – The Oases if Nafzawa and Wed Suef and Wed Regh and other Berbers of the Sus as “of very dark complexion” in Guiseppi Sergi The Mediterranean Race: The Study of the origin of European peoples The Walter Scott Publishing Company

On the Libyo Berbers called – Gaetules or Jeddala
The Gaitules were the most populous of the Libyan tribes of Strabo’s time (1st century AD). Josephus claimed they were descended from Havilah or the Avalioi who he says children of Kush child of Ham.

1st -2nd century – Juvenal, the Roman writer in his Satire V. 53 referred to “a Gaetulian, as a black a Moor “so black you’d rather not see him at midnight”.. Found in Madan’s translation of Juvenal, vol. I by J. Vincent published at Oxford.

Among the Gaetules were a tribe Dari or Darae Gaetuli, there was also a stream called Daradae Ethiopus (DARAE were a Gaetulian tribe in the W. of Africa, on a mountain stream called Dara, on the S. steppes of M. Atlas, adjacent to the Pharusii. (Plin. V. 1: Oros. i. 2: Leo Afr. P. 602.)
The Draa (Arabic: ???) (also spelled Dra or Draâ, in older sources mostly Darha or Dara) is Morocco’s longest river (1100 km). “The inhabitants of the Draa are called Draawa (an exonym), the most famous Draawi undoubtedly being mawlay Mohammed ash-Sheikh. Outside of the Draa region this name is mostly used to refer to the dark skinned people of Draa which make up the largest portion of its inhabitants.” Retrieved May 13th 2008 from

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Draa-river

Descriptions of the Masmuda, Sanhaja, Ketama, Zenata Berbers of coastal North Africa and the Upper Atlas

Most Arab-speaking historians beginning as far back as the 8th century when Wah ibn Munabihh a South Arabian and descendant of an Iranian mercenary claimed the Berbers belonged to black races of Ham. Several Muslim writers claimed the Berbers were the sons of Berr who were said to descend from Mazigh ibn (son of ) Canaan Ibn Ham Ibn Nuh (Noah). The tradition found cited in Nafousa: Berber Community in Western Libya, Omar Sahli citing Dabbuz. Retrieved on-line from http://www.tawalt.com/monthly/fessato_1.pdf , July. 12, 2008.
The Zenata are called a Canaanite race by other Muslim writers see ‘The Berbers” Geo. Babington Michell, Journal of the Royal African Society, Vol. 2, No. 6 (Jan., 1903), pp. 161-194. The traditions state that in fact Berbers were descendants of Amalekites (Amalek) from Canaan and Himyarite from Yemen both descendants of “Adites” that had invaded Egypt before 1200 B.C. and “advanced toward the Maghreb”.
The Berbers as represented by the Tuareg especially appear to have called themselves Mashek or Mazigh who are associated with bringing the camel into Africa. Mashek is still the name of a tribe of the Mahra of Oman and Hadramaut who also claim an origin in the Yemen.
( In early Arabian tradition the lowland of Canaan or the Kenaniyya tribe was in an area of the western region of Arabia north of Yemen and not farther to the north in modern Palestine or Israel. See the Bible Came from Arabia. Kamal Salibi )

11th century – “The Berber women are from the island of Barbara, which is between the west and the south. Their color is mostly black though some pale ones can be found among them. If you can find one whose mother is of Kutama, whose father is of Sanhaja, and whose origin is Masmuda, then you will find her naturally inclined to obedience and loyalty in all matters, active in service, suited both to motherhood and to pleasure, for they are the most solicitous in caring for their children. “ 11th century the Christian Iraqi physician Ibn Butlan quoted by historian Bernard Lewis.

11th century – Nasr i Khusrau, an Iranian ruler described the Masmuda soldiers of the Fatimid dynasty as “black Africans”. See Yaacov Lev, “Army, Regime and Society in Fatimid Egypt, 358-487/968-1094″, International Journal of Middle Eastern Studies, 19.3 (1987) p. 342.

13th century – Primary Cronica General of Alphonso X of Spain describes the 300 Almoravid “Amazon” women whose leader is described as black and Moorish. They were “led by their leader Nugaymath al-Tarqiyya (the “star of the Tuareg archers” in Arabic) who led the Almoravid siege of Valencia”; cited in Nubian Queens in the Nile Valley by Carolyn Fluehr-Lobban, Ninth International Conference of Nubian Studies, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, USA. See also The Berbers in Arab Literature by H.T. Norris 1982.p. 20. Harvey , L.P. “Nugaymath Turquia, Primera Cronica General, Chapter 956” Journal of Semitic Studies 13, no. 2:232. Targiyyat or Targiya is a variant form or pronunciation in North Africa for the name Tuareg. 13th or 14th century Abu Shama, a Syrian, described the Masmuda Berbers as “blacks” in his, Kitab al-Ravdatayn. Found in Golden Age of the Moor, 1991 edition p. 57, edited by Dr. Ivan Van Sertima.

14th – The Almoravid or Al Murabitun dynasty coming from the Atlas was one of the last dynasties coming from Africa to rule in the Iberian peninsula. One of the 11th century rulers of Andalusia and North Africa was Yusuf Tachfin who had come from a long line of miltary rulers. According to “Roudh el-Kartas” (History of the Rulers of Morocco) by Abd Allah, and A.Beaumier’s French translation of the 14th century work, Yusuf was of “brown color”, of “middle height” with , “ thin, little beard, soft voice” and “woolly hair”. The Almoravid dynasty was supposedly composed mainly of Sanhaja clans of Massufa, Joddala (Gaetuli) and Lamtuna (or Auelimidden Tuareg)- the Auelamidden have since moved southward and live in Niger.

105 thoughts on “African Moors: The Appearance of the Original Berbers According to European Perceptions – By – Dana Marniche”

  1. Hi Dear Tariq Berry

    Europeans can’t explain our history , one of the main reason is because they don’t understand our language.

    The Portuguese (slave raiders) arrived in Senegal the first and they didn’t meet the moors, but the serers who killed a bunch of them;

    I know this thesis : Senegal is from the Zenaga (which was a pejorative name in the time of the french colony see Maurice Delafosse) berber tribe is highly diffused but it’s wrong:

    - Su Nu Gaal means Our Dugout, the name of the country Sénégal is taken from the river Sénégal; like for the country Congo and the river of the same name;

    - When the french arrived in our country, Moors didn’t rule Senegal, the Almoravides kingdom was passed away many centuries ago. We had many kingdoms with black african rulers: Baol, Cayor,Djoloff; Wolofs; ie the moors didn’t rule our country during the French colonisation; They were settled in the North at Mauritanian/Senegalese border like nowadays;

    - The Almoravides berbers didn’t rule Senegal even if they were settled there in order to flee the persecution ( Berbers were generally christians or jews before their rising); Their capital was Marrakech in Morocco (founded by Yusuf Ibn Tashfin);

    - There were also black Almoravides named Mannas, Yusuf Ibn Tashfin ( whose mother was soninké or Sarakhollé) and his cousin Abu Bakr were allied to War Diabi Ndiaye King of Tekrour and Ibrahima Sall; This is why there wasso many black soldiers and rulers in Spain during the Almoravid period. Yusuf Ibn Tashfin himself was a black African and had many africans in his family [ See the work of , Seidou Kane and Aboubacry Moussa Lam ]

    - What I was trying to say is that the Almoravides was a group of Berbers (Black and White) allied with muslims West Africans rulers (Fulanis and Tuculors mainly);

    - The Zenaga ( many berber tribes, Lemtuna, Sanhaja,Messoufa etc) were generally settled in North Africa (Morocco, Algeria etc) , while few of them lived in black Africa; Even today the majority of the zenaga are in North Africa specially the Sanhaja (who lived in Morocco);

    - In Mauritania for instance it was not the Zenaga who had the power but the Hassaniya;

    - As I explain to Dana earlier, the name of the actual capital of Sénégal is Dakar in French , in our Language it’s Dakhar (Tamarind), the “kh” is pronounced with the “j” in spanish; Dakhar was the Name of the tree where our ancestors used to have meetings in order to settle important issues. But they called our capital Ndakarou which is now Dakar;

    - French did the same in many countries in Africa, for instance Algeria (Algérie in French) was named Al Djazair by the locals, french could’nt say it so they transformed it into Algérie;

    - Abbé David Boilat (19th century) a french bishop ( his mother was senegalese , a signare) who understood wolof had the same explanation of the name senegal; Maurice Delafosse who studied many years the languages and peoples of the French sudan (West Africa), has the same too;

    - Moors have never ruled the senegalese specially the wolof who is a warrior people; even during the slave trade their arrival were forbidden in many new countries: Hispaniola, Porto Rico, Colombia, Panama etc. They were the people who led the first slave rebellion in the new world: Santo Domingo (1522), Porto Rico (1527), Panama (1530, 1531) etc;

    - The Moors have been enemies to west Africans countries since the 16 th century when the king of Morocco destroyed Tomboctou with his English Allies ( Djouder Pacha) and their guns and canons;

    - During the slave trade French and british (Governor O’Hara) provided guns to the Moors of Mauritania in order to destroy the senegalese people and to provide slaves to these slave dealer nations. Since that time ours relations are based on distrust;

    If you know any senegalese in New York learned or not, around you please ask him. You can even contact the senegalese scholars at University Cheikh Anta DIOP, they won’t accept this equation : SENEGAL is from ZENEGA;

    Regards

  2. Hi Nehesy,

    You said:

    “Europeans can’t explain our history , one of the main reason is because they don’t understand our language.”

    Unfortunately, much of what is written and read in the history books of the former colonized countries of the area was written by the former colonizers.

    You said:

    “Su Nu Gaal means Our Dugout, the name of the country Sénégal is taken from the river Sénégal; like for the country Congo and the river of the same name”

    But read this:

    “As early as 1850 Abbey David Boilat wrote in his Sketches of Senegal that it was in fact a deformation of the Wolof words suñu gaal, meaning “our pirogue”. As it is a very popular explanation, it is the one most frequently found in the media. However, since the 1960’s it has been questioned and several other etymologies have been suggested, including its being attributed to the toponym of a Saharan Berber tribe, the Zenaga. Even today the debate continues.

    Who is this Abbey David Boilat? Read this:

    Boilat, Abbé Pierre D.
    fl. 1840 to 1853
    Catholic
    Senegal

    One of the first French-assimilated Senegalese, he was the first African to study African culture and society from a Western perspective.

    He was one of a group of young Senegalese selected by missionary educators to study in France in order to prepare for teaching in Senegal. Ordained in France in 1841, he returned to Senegal two years later to open a secondary school in St. Louis. The school was plagued with personnel problems and a loss of French support because it aimed to give its students a classical French education. It ceased to exist in 1849. Boilat was transferred from the school in 1845, accused of immoral conduct. During his tenure there and later on the island of Gorée he studied the history and societies of the interior. His work was published as Esquisses Sénégalaises (1853), illustrated with his own accomplished drawings. The book also set forth Boilat’s assimilationist philosophy.

    You said:

    “When the french arrived in our country, Moors didn’t rule Senegal, the Almoravides kingdom was passed away many centuries ago. We had many kingdoms with black african rulers: Baol, Cayor,Djoloff; Wolofs; ie the moors didn’t rule our country during the French colonisation; They were settled in the North at Mauritanian/Senegalese border like nowadays”

    What do you mean when you say that the Moors were settled in the north? Does it make a difference what part of Senegal they were in- north or south? Can you explain what you mean by that?

    What exactly do you mean by black African rulers. You know that Yousef Ibn Tashfin was dark-skinned with kinky hair and he was from the Sanhaja tribe. Do you consider him a black African ruler? He looked like the other people in the area now called Senegal. Do you agree with the tradition that the Wolof are descended from Yousef Ibn Tashfin’s cousin Abu Bakr Ibn Umar (Abu Dardai) and that this Abu Bakr Ibn Umar had a son named Ahmed (Amadu), who was called Ndyayan Ndyay (the ancestor of the Wolof)? Do you reject this? If so, why?

    You said:

    “What I was trying to say is that the Almoravides was a group of Berbers (Black and White) allied with muslims West Africans rulers (Fulanis and Tuculors mainly)”

    Here you have Berbers on one side and Muslim West African rulers on another side. Can you explain the distinction?
    Nehesy, when talking about history, can we use terms like Africa or African? What do we mean by these terms? Before the coming of the European colonizers, no one called himself/herself an African and a place called Africa was unheard of. It was the European colonizers who started separating people and giving them their classifications. They decided to make some people in the area that you call Africa Africans and people just a stone’s throw across the Bab Al Mandab another, separate people. They want to make people like the Wolof consider themselves different from and unrelated to peoples like the Zenaga and other Sanhaja, for example. They want the Wolof to reject the tradition that they are descended from the Sanhaja. They want them to consider themselves Africans and to consider the Sanhaja a separate, white, Berber or Arab people. Black-skinned people are not only from the area that you call Africa. The descendants of Ham and the descendants of Sam were dark-skinned people. The descendants of Jafeth were light-skinned. Try to understand, Nehesy, that the Mandingo drawn in this picture (drawing by Boilat himself) looks like an Arab 100%. http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/Boilat08.JPG
    Sincerely,
    Tariq Berry

  3. Dear Tariq

    Europeans can’t explain our history even if they wrote it. For instance the old ancient Egyptian language is an African language that we can find nowadays in all other africa within the following tribes:

    - Woloff
    - Bamilékés
    - Yorubas
    - Soninkés
    - Fulanis or peuls

    etc, etc

    But Europeans scholars can’t or don’t want to say the truth so they speak of a Semitic Egypt even if their language has only survived in black Africa; They don’t speak African languages so they can’t make the relation;

    I have the chance to speak my language even if was born in France, my parents (My father is Wolof, my mother is Fulani), taught it to me. So when I read the medu neter many words are familiar to me and have the same meaning in my native language.

    When I made the distinction between the Berbers (Black and Whites) and the West African rulers, it was a modern way to make everybody understand.

    We Africans don’t call ourselves Africans but by the name of the different ethnics groups or tribes : Woloffs, Lebous, Susus, Malinkés, Bambara, Khassonkhé, Yoroubas, Ibos, Mossis, Diolas, Mandiaks etc, etc.

    And we can recognise each other just by a look…

    You’ll find the same process in all over “Africa” , East, West, North , South.

    Even the berbers or touaregs distinguished themselves by the name of their tribes. They don’t call themselves North Africans, except here in Europe in order to explain their origin;

    In my language wolof we call the Berbers (black or whites) : NAR , and we call the moors of Mauritania : NAR GANAR , GANAR is Mauritania;

    We use the same word to call the Arabs ie NAR, but you knew our culture in west africa you’ll find out that it’s very impossible (Zenega gave the name of Senegal).

    I don’t reject that some tribes africa came from Arabia (Yemen) or even Persia, because I found it in other books ( Caussin de Perceval, Flora Shaw, Adolphe Bloch), but what happened between the Berbers and us make this thesis impossible (Zenega gave the name of Sénégal)

    I doesn’t object that there is black Berbers tribes too because I saw them with my own eyes, and of one my childhood friend is a black berber from Algeria and he looks like an Ethiopian or Somalian. I saw them too in Morocco.

    My mother told me that when I was I child some moors in Senegal asked her if my father was a moor, even if I’m ebony black.

    I know that wikipedia says that L’Abbé boilat was perhaps wrong but the people who wrote this article can’t speak woloff. Abbé Boilat was right I think because at least he spoke and understood woloff;

    At the Border between Mauritania you have Blacks and Moors, you have (had) more blacks (mainly Soninkés and fulanis) in Mauritania than Moors in Senegal. The Ghana empire was located in some parts of modern Mauritania but it was ruled by Blacks, soninkés named Cissé. It was the black griots who allowed Bonnel de Mezières to found the location of Ghana in 1918, not Berbers or Arabs;

    One big problem in Africa history, is that Europeans want to make everything civilization coming from the Berbers ( specially the White Berbers) : Ghana, Songhai, Zimbabwe, Tomboctou etc. The big problem is that It’s hard to find these kind of civilizations in North Africa ( except the Carthaginians who were Phoenicians , Romans, Numidians). This is why they try to “berberized” Black civiizations in the mother continent even ancient Egypt…

    In the North of Senegal you have also some fulanis and soninkés, but what I was trying to say that you couldn’t find a Moorish empire in Senegal when French arrived…

    The Portuguese had destroyed them before by raids and kidnapping, and they were sold as slaves in Portugal , Spain and in the New world ( See : Michael Gomez, De Azurara, Gilberto Freyre etc)
    ?
    The best thing I could suggest to you is to contact the Senegalese scholars at Cheikh Anta DIOP’s University, they’ll tell you the same thing I guess.

    And about Ndiadiane Ndiaye they are actually from Soudan (Nuer) like many groups from sénégal, people with the names: Ly, Sy, Ka, Ba, DIOP, Kane, Wane

    In our legend Ndiadiane Ndiaye is a Brother of Djob or Diop both are from Sudan, you can see it in Cheikh Anta DIOP’s Books (Cicilization or Barbarism)

    We wolofs are nothing to do with berbers except some unions (War like for the almoravid, marriage ) because :

    - Our language is different
    - Our customs are different (we are totemic not the Berbers)
    - The origins of the Wolof people has to be found on the Nile Valley (Egypt and Soudan) not from the berbers or arabs; Cheikh Anta DIOP has prooved without any doubt.

    For instance the name DIOP is DIOB or DJOB in wolof. The totemic animal for thi clan is the Hoopoe (Upupa epops). Their child have the same hairdress style (Hoopoe).

    When you take the Gardiner Dictionnary page 469 it says that the Hoopoe or Upupa epops was called db by ancient Egyptians : db = DIOB, DJOB

    In africa the family name is lake the finger prints, so that Berber theory can”t stand… Ndiaye and DIOP are wolof/lebou names,Barry, Diallo, Ly, Sy, Ka , Ba are Fulanis/ Tuculors (From Tekrour names). You had also Pharoahs of the first dynasty who were called Ba, and Ka (see Toby Wilkinson). Diedhou or Sané is Diola, Camara (Ka-Ma-Ra) is mandingo, Sankara or Sankaré ( San-Kha-Ré) sometimes soninké ( One pharaoah was named Sankharé); Siby or Dramé are soninkés name etc,etc

    Nevertheless you may find some wolof who have the same features of the black berbers or black arabs, but it’s general to all other Africa : Somalia, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Guinea etc.

    Berber culture is from Ethiopia, Martin Bernal and others has showed it.

    Peace and Respect

  4. Brother Jahdey

    No Doubt within the moors or black berbers in North AFrica ( Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Libya) many of them are black and they are autochtonous people.

    In south Morocco you can find Bob marley’s doubles. Actually you have many north africans rastas specially Algerians, they wear dreadlocks and smoke ganja lol.

    Many moors during roman times were blacks and had dreadlocks I’m sure about this ( I discovered it into Snowden and Van Sertima books, RIP Both). The word Moors was dedicated for black north Africans and then socialized to all North Africans.

    Peace

    1. My good brother Nehesy

      My question to you will be this:

      Who first used the name “Senegal” for that body of River so called today?

      Jahdey

  5. Hi Jahdey

    It’s only a guess, but I think that French gave this name Senegal to our country Senegal according to the name given to the natives to that river ie sunugaal. Like Congo in central Africa or Niger in West Africa.

    Sénégal was part of the Mandingo Empire (Soundjata Keita) . And before the French came the all country was called Djoloff by our ancestors.

    When the first empire collapsed according to some wolof traditions, a moor (father Lemtuna and a fulani mother from the tekrour named Farimata Sall) renamed Ndiadiane Ndiaye by a priest was the first ruler.

    His father being Lemtuna (from the zenega group) I guess some people made this relationship between Zenega and Senegal. This idea is not stupid though, but the key is the understanding of the wolof language.

    Wo-lof or Wa-laf as said by Cheikh Anta Diop , is a maritime people. Laf means the river’s Bank. Perhaps they used the name sunugaal for this river because it was a mean for travel or transport, it would be an explanation for the meaning ” Our Pirogue”.

    This Ndiadiane Ndiaye is different from the 1st we know in our tradition who came from the Sudan.

    However in our tradition he (the 2nd Ndiadiane Ndiaye) had a brother called Barka who gave the name of the king of Walo (another kingdom in Senegal) : Barka; Barak; Brak.

    Barka has a Carthaginian root.

    Ndiadiane Ndiaye’s mother was a Belianke Fulani (Farimata Sall).

    In our langage BEL + IANKE means Men of Bel or Baal a Phoenician or canaanite God. Like MALINKE is people from Mali;

    The family Name BAL or BAAL is present within the tuculors of tekrour.

    May be their forefathers are those people whose story is described by Hanno of Carthage .

    Without no Doubt , Koushites from the Middle East and Arabia settled in “Africa” : East, North, West;

    The best explanation I think could be given by our Elders ( they’re all agree about sunugaal gave senegal though ) and the senegalese scholars at university cheikh anta diop.

    Peace

    1. Nehesy

      Great piece of narrative you have sent back to my question. However, you may be missing my point.

      If it was the French that named the River as Senegal, would they not be the best ones to explain where they got that name and what they intended to say by it.

      Insisting that the Wolof ethymology of Senegal suggests Suunugal rather than Zenega is somewhat of a leap.

      The French named the River Niger after the Berber word “Ger” meaning River. So “Ni-Ger” simply means the River. But the French had to identify the origin of this fanciful name they bestowed on to River Jolliba, which is the name by which the great River is identified by many people in Guinea, Niger and Nigeria. One cannot legitimately seek for the ethymology of Niger iin any other root.

      Lake Victoria was so named by the British. It is only legitimate that we use the British history of the naming of Victoria Lake to understand their reason for doing so. The indigenous Africans had different names for Lake Victoria, and we can look to those names when we seek the ethymology of the African names of the lake.

      So back again to Senegal, my understanding is that the French named the River Senegal after their habits for re-naming African landmarks. However, according to the French sources, the origin of the name Senegal as they used it came from Zenega. Inspite of what the Wolofs may call Cannoe in their original language, the French did not keep that in consideration when they named the great River as the Zenega or the Senegal. At least, that is my understanding.

      Sunugal as used by the Wolofs then may be a legitimate word in Wolof. But as used for the River, I think the French were trying to say Zenega.

      Note: Guinea comes from a corruption of Gana (the old African Empire). Ghana was long dead and gone by the time the Europeans renamed the coast as the coast of Guinea. Also Old Ghana was also in North Africa and not down by the Atlantic coast.

  6. Jahdey

    This never theory ZENEGA/SENEGAL has never been validated by any senegalese scholar like Cheikh Anta DIOP, Aboubacry Moussa Lam, Ibrahima Sall, Birago DIOP, Ibrahima THIOUB, Leopold Sedar Senghor or any French scholar who understood wolof like the french Maurice Delafosse.

    Actually Maurice Delafosse in his book “Haut Sénégal Niger , Tome 1″ in 1912, destroys this theory pages 58 to 62; he says that even El Bekri separated the name of the Zenaga and the river Senegal.

    We and Berbers have fought each other, married, allied, dominated each over ( Black kings with berbers vassals, slaves and concubines, and it happened the same in the Berber side), I don’t have any problem with that theory but according to what I know ( may be I’m wrong too) which means our culture, our mentally , our language it seems to me wrong.

    El Bekri said that North Senegal was ruled by woloff and they dominated Trarzas Tuaregs and The few Zenegas present in that region. Plus Maurice Delafosse presented many testimonies from the first European travelers (since the 15 th century) who always separated the Zenega Berbers with the name of the river Senegal.

    You can download the book here :

    http://gallica.bnf.fr/

    Europeans in Africa have altered many names Zinguinchor from Izguichor, Angola who was Ngola, Guinea is from Ghana and was a Vassal of that Empire with Senegal and Mali;

    I knew that Niger is not an autochtonous name like the Volta in Burkina Faso (Anciently named Haute Volta by the French), Martin Bernal in Black Athena II and III says that it’s a semitic word N(gr) which means “Water which flows(sinks) into the sand “;

    However the Latin used this word NIGER as a synonym of beauty for the Nigretes or Nigretai Black tribes;

  7. Strabo – Geography I ii 26 reads: ” Ephorus says the Tartessians report the Ethiopians overran Libya as far as Dyris and that some of them stayed in Dyris, while others occupied a great part of the sea-board.” These Ethiopians were undoubtedly the ancestral Tuareg or the original Mazikes who are coming from the Yemen under their ruler Teras or Idris bin Harun (Jether son of Aaron), the Midianite brother of Yathrib (Jethro) bin Harun circa 1100 B.C..

    These Ethiopians might have taken their name from the Niger as the early Nigretai were supposed to have been nomadic peoples and are mentioned with the nomad Pharusii in early sources. The latter are undoubtedly the Iforas( or Ifuraces also anciently Afarik) Tuareg of modern Mali.

    Interestingly Pliny speaks of the Gaetulians as extending to the river Nigris . From A History of Ancient Geography among the Greeks and Romans,. Vol. II, p. 435.

    I also found this quote on the internet, “…in Maurusia, which we call Mauritania, the river Dyris, from Mount Atlas, which, rising in a northern region, proceeds westward to the lake Heptabolus, where, changing its name, it is called the Niger.” Marcus Vitruvius Pollio de Architectura Book VIII

  8. Hi Dana

    Sorry I didn’t see your message about French and white slavery in Algeria. I’ll find the source and post it here.

    Regards

    1. As for slaves coming from Europe. Ive’ learned within the past few years that Over the last 15 years their have been a number of scholarly books on the subject . A number of reviews have been done on these books stating the figures. Some examples are below –

      White Slaves, African Masters
      An Anthology of American Barbary Captivity Narratives

      Edited and with an introduction by Paul Baepler

      The University of Chicago Press 1999

      This book illuminates a subject once well-known in the history of the West but which is now somewhat neglected: the enslavement, over several centuries, of tens of thousands of white Christian Europeans and (later) Americans in Muslim North Africa — or the so-called “Barbary” states of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli. Over the course of 10 centuries, tens of thousands of these unfortunates became the possessions of Muslims in North Africa courtesy of the feared Barbary pirates. These pirates cruised the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean in search of European and, later, American ships to pillage and plunder.

      As Baepler notes in his introduction, Christian slaves of European ancestry were hardly an uncommon phenomenon in the Barbary States. The Barbary pirates were excellent seafarers and, from the Coasts of North Africa, sailed as far north as Iceland (where they went ashore and captured 800 slaves during one incident) and as far West as Newfoundland, Canada, where they pillaged more than 40 vessels at one time. By 1620, reports Baepler, there were more than 20,000 white Christian slaves in Algiers alone, and by the 1630s that number tolled more than 30,000 men and 2,000 women. The most famous of all white Christian Europeans to serve as a slave in the Barbary States was probably Miguel de Cervantes, the great Spanish author of the “Don Quixote” epic, who was taken as a slave in the late 1500s. ”

      In a 1902 book entitled, The Moors: A Comprehensive Description

      “Another way in which the Europeans have been frequently outwitted is by the importation of Circassian and other slaves and eunuchs from Turkey via braltar or Algiers in foreign vessels, usually entered as members of the family of their master… This is often the case with white concubines, who are in great demand, even if natives. Consequently white girls are frequently kidnapped, and in time of war openly sold…”

      We know that unlike the black women slaves in North Africa, the European or white slave women were brought to Africa especially for among other things, propogation purposes – especially Circassians.

  9. I think there is many studies and books about berbers,and each one is contradicting the other,especialy when talking about the kabyles.all that because of the colonial ideology (the arabs ,and the europeans),to say that the early kabyles were brown skin or dark skin ,then the modern kabyles are fair skin is stupide.the kabyles are whites folks with a very mixt origins,since the neolhitic . I can speak as a Kabyle myself, for me and my entire family (all being berber-kabyles for generations),I myself am very light skinned, and blond, many of my family .cousins,friends are as well, and blue eyed, which are almost non-existant traits among ‘arabs’. Berbers of north africa are the original inhabitants of the land. Arabs came later during the arab conquest, they spread Islam and began mixing with the native population, but many of the people in the mountains and remote areas were not as affected by the mixing. There have been many foreign invasions in North Africa including the romans, ottomans, spanish, arabs, french,but kabyls were never been dark skin,they are very different from the sub and the saharian berbers!I don’t think saint agustune of hypo was black or the berber-empror of rome were black also!STOP MANIPULATING HISTORY

    1. Although the majority of Moroccans ARE racist against balck people (I’ve been I experienced this first hand – very racist!) they themselves do not realise their ancestry – this is crazy, I’ve spoken to a dark brown moroccan and asked him his race (a man in his 30′s) his reply was ‘white’. They see themeslves as white or arabian nothing more. There are very black moor-occans! The shades vary, so why are they so racist of BLACK people? If they are arab, why are they in AFRICA??!!!

      1. Yes the word part is even the brown Moroccans don’t want anything to do with black Africa, something like many northern Egyptians. They are racist because of the influence of the late Ottoman Empire – from the 1700s forward – a time in which most of the slaves brought into Morocco and North Africa were from so- called black Africa (unlike the previous 1,000 years). Of course European colonialism across Northern Africa and Arabia added to this.

    2. in fact there are still dark -skinned kabyles. Furthermore, the area that has been considered Kabylia has also seen change in the last 200 years. Kabylia and the Aures were connected peoples the area AS ARCHEOLOGY SHOWS has been settled by blond Vandals, iron age Greeks, Berbers and Romans. And also many European slaves have come to the region as Berber came down from the mountains to acquire concubines. There is nothing contradictory about colonial observations. They basically said the majority of the Berber clans of Kabylia were dark or near black and that some were not. They also said these people dressed differently and had different or distinct cultures.

      You are right Kabylians today are a result of mixture of peoples of diverse origin since the iron age. The Berbers who occupied Kabylia were called Kitama and were the “Moors” spoken of by Procopius who had “black skins” unlike the Vandals. Their descendants – the Imakitan are still near black in color.

      Thus, iIf you are trying to to say early Berbers were blond and blue eyed or that even most whites in kabylia were blond and blue-eyed you need to start studying the Vandal, Greek and Roman heritage of Kabylia. maybe that will resolve some heritage issues for you. Stop leaving that out which is part of your “MANIPULATING HISTORY” and we won’t be having this discussion!.

    3. You are correct in that anybody who today speaks Berber is called “a Berber” or Moors. That doesn’t mean they have anything to do with the people anciently called Berbers by Greeks, Romans and Byzantines.

      Berbers are not a homogeoneous people or culture.

      “There is little doubt that the whole of North Africa spoke Berber languages at one time while in the Middle Ages they occupied much of Spain and Sicily as well. But just as the dialects are mutually incomprehensible so the people themselves are extremely heterogeneous: the existence of an ethnically defined unified people is no more demonstrable for the past than it is today. Indeed, there are a bewildering number of cultures, economies and physical characteristics. ”

      The Berbers, by Brett and Fentress

      Algeria: A Country Study, which reads: “The Berbers are a composite people, presenting a broad range of physical types and the bond among various Berber groups is almost entirely a linguistic one.”

  10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH2UfdSkHV0

    Someone proud of their Germanic heritage put the above videos up about the Vandals i.e. modern inhabitants of Kabyles.

    Ancient History Sourcebook:
    Procopius of Caesarea:
    Gaiseric & The Vandal Conquest of North Africa, 406 – 477 CE

    “Now the Vandals, dwelling about the Maeotic Lake [the Sea of Azov], since they were pressed by hunger, moved to the country of the Germans, who are now called Franks, and the river Rhine, associating with themselves the Alans, a Gothic people … Thus the Libyans were visited with every form of misfortune.

    The Vandals and the Alans he arranged in companies, appointing over them no less than eighty captains, whom he called “chiliarchs” [i.e., "leaders of a thousand"], making it appear that his host of fighting men in active service amounted to eighty thousand. And yet the number of the Vandals and Alans was said in former times, at least, to amount to no more than fifty thousand men. However, after that time by their natural increase among themselves and by associating other barbarians with them they came to be an EXCEEDINGLY NUMEROUS PEOPLE. But the names of the Alans and all the other barbarians, except the Mauretanii, were united in the name of Vandals.”

  11. The ancient Berbers are white (skin color) and Caucasian for you to believe.
    The ancient Berbers are
    -numadiens
    -cartages
    -Libyans
    -moritaniers
    -on en on
    ancestors of black people in Marocco or Algeria were used as slave. The Berbers used black slaves and their trad slave to Arabs. Blacks ho slaved blacks? Don’t try to still history.

    1. Lmbao!! It’s actually “have” and “steal” you melanin deficient albinoid.

      So, I suppose Visigothic chronicler John of Biclaro has no clue what he was talking about while in north alkebulan? He clearly stated that, “the inhabitants were full of blackness.”

      Also “moor” and “berber” meant the same thing. In the Chronicle of Najera (twelfth-century Leon) Abd al-Rahman I, the Umayyad amir of mid-eighth century al-Andalus, is called “King of the Mauri,” and Abd al-Rahman III, the tenth-century Umayyad Caliph, is called “the Maurus.” (Chapter 559 General Chronicle of Spain).

      Where did you get your false information from? This can be found on http://www.realhistoryww.com
      The books are referenced, so your diseased skin having arse can verify. These are people who were there.

      Were you there to see them? No, your ignorant ass is just upset that we found out.

    2. “there are three tribes of Ethiopians: Hesperians, Garamantes and Indians” (See IX ii 128.in The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, Stephen A. Barney, 2006, p. 199).

      “Diodorus Siculus speaks in reference to the expedition of Agathocles , of three Libyan tribes on the coast of Tunisia, the Micatani and Zufoni who were nomads and the Asfodelodi, who by the color of their skin resembled the Ethiopians” p. 50 The Mediterranean Race Book XX, 38, 57 Guiseppe Sergi

      “Indeed, by the time Isidore of Seville came to write his Etymologies, the word Maurus or ‘Moor’ had become an adjective in Latin, ‘for the Greeks call black, mauron’. In Isidore’s day, Moors were black by definition…” (Staying Roman: Conquest and identity in Africa and the Mediterranean, 439-700. Jonathan Conant, 2012 Cambridge University Press.)

      ““An anonymous poem included in the Latin Anthology discusses a Moorish slave in strikingly similar terms: The dregs of the Garamantes have now advanced to our region and the house slave Niger …rejoices in his pitch-black body. If the voice discharged from his lips did not make him sound human, the gristly demon would terrify living men….”p. 271 Staying Roman: Conquest and identity in Africa and the Mediterranean, 439-700. Johathan Conant, 2012 Cambridge University press.

      “Troops of black Numidians scour the Field, And bold Illyrians? narrow Bucklers wield; Here twang the Syrian, and the Cretan Bow, And the fierce Gauls provoke their well-known foe..From Book VII of Lucan’s Pharsalia translated into English.by N. Rowe James 1772.

      Silius Italicus wrote “on his hot steed unused to curb or reign, a black Numidian prances o’er the plain” quoted by from Records of Roman History from Cnæus Pompeius to Tiberius Constantinus Volume 1 p. 357, 1860.

      “there are three tribes of Ethiopians: Hesperians, Garamantes and Indians” (See IX ii 128.in The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville, Stephen A. Barney, 2006, p. 199).

      “The Berber women are from the island of Barbara (sic), which is between the west and the south. Their color is mostly black though some pale ones can be found among them. If you can find one whose mother is of KUTAMA, whose father is of SANHAJA, and whose origin is MASMUDA, then you will find her naturally inclined to obedience and loyalty in all matters…” Ibn Butlan 11th century

  12. this is not from research this is from the search of the ality before the re we the muurs do not live in the land of re of illusion of make believe the suisse in morrocco are not white in skin color only the amazighs from europe germany an this suisse muurs family works high in govt this is stanely lane poole who told what negro an muurs being inducted into fake red ruddy amazon turk white race,,,,,,,,this is false but his point was that the muurs were not from pale skin people like him but his people came from us the euopen sons o f the muurs who now run america an always have before obama ,,,civilization strted in the wetas did albions red rudy amazon turks now mis called white for fake nobility status mm cant be white an a slave or strawman its fraud ,,,,,,, their is no false red ruddy amazon turk white race in north africa before morrocco replaces mauritania on the new maps of illusion..theirs nothing ancent about this s called red ruddy amazon turk carrion cagot skin color its only 6000 -7000 years old so noting ancient is that young its god we know the suisse who deflect the lies of white sking color with theis not being amazigh german or te lowest class in morrocco living in moutains an their was no morrocco in ancent times in akebulan,, it was where america is now the amexums they were called north n south thats why u dont see morrocco in the east on ancient maps that have atlantis an lemuria which is ancient times ,caucus of the asion caucasion grafted not from three penis phallus saturn eel moloch baal baphomet zionist jesuit patriarchal stolen from matriarchal heaven ,,numidians set up hannible with ccyprio africaanus to take carthage ,,,these were not caucasions ,, but nobles in status which s whaat white mean in law blaccks law dictionary volume 4 free white soveeign doess not mean caucsion race or aryan race , white stolen from whiggamor is only from 1863 in america not so ancient not this enlish from 1832 ,,thats when it became official in america ,,,berber barber barbary coast barbarian barbara babar the king the elephant is the symbol of the muurs an the republican party we started in america usurped by democrats after great compromise by ruther ford by hayes in south carolina which was what birth of a naion bullsht was really about ,the creation of the fake white kkk man at the expense of the muurs we used blu eyed blone haire slaves also cause it hd n color like in rome an caucasions were still slaves still after 1865 going by the convention against white slavery 1910 in spain ,,,,study marc washington on rasta livewire ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,protocols of learned elders of zion meridith quinn time walker ,,you tube treaty law

  13. civilization started in the west as did albions as did spanish language in south amexum ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, that moroccoin east is not ancient morrocco so called white skin berber got a lot of nerve bragging bout ottoman empire invasion skin ,,hizzztory books lie,dana marniche is right an we long ago showed what is being replyed to her as being false with fake skin color ,,we are white in status owners lndlords of the land ,, an know that skin color is illusion an what they use to take all ur rights away b taking land from people an getting them to grant the land over to tthem by callin them white THEY NOT WHITE thats what happened in america to indiginous muurs who now call them self black ,,people who clAim to be a color in pubic have no knowledge oF any of the law,,civil rights are priviledges in law ,,color of law is civilitter morteus,,, let the teacher dana teach

  14. The cronicles of conquest of the canary islands in the XV century relates that the berber tribes where there had many “whites”, including blue eyed. Mommies also show a high % of blonde and redissh blonde individuals. By isolation,this populations can be considered quite archaich and free of the Bedouine invations in the VII century AD.

    The arguments that Libians where “immigrants” is simply ridiculous and politically motivated. Quite the oposite, the libyans where natives of the Nile delta as shown by Goddess Neith cult. All this contradicts your appreciations.

    There is also a high percentage of mechta individuals and less of the mediterranean type, although the % varies upon wich island is considered.

    What it seems to be true by the prehistoric paints of the Sahara Dessert is that black populations where present in the area when it was a green palin full of life.

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