Ancient African Kings Of India
By
Dr. Clyde Winters
Ethiopians have had very intimate relations with Indians. In fact, in antiquity the Ethiopians ruled much of India. These Ethiopians were called the Naga. It was the Naga who created Sanskrit.
A reading of ancient Dravidian literature which dates back to 500 BC, gives us considerable information on the Naga. In Indian tradition the Naga won central India from the Villavar (bowmen) and Minavar (fishermen).
The Naga were great seamen who ruled much of India, Sri Lanka and Burma. To the Aryans they described as half man and snake. The Tamil knew them as warlike people who used the bow and noose.
The earliest mention of the Naga, appear in the Ramayana , they are also mentioned in the Mahabharata. In the Mahabharata we discover that the
Naga had the capital city in the Dekkan, and other cities spread between the Jumna and Ganges as early as 1300 BC. The Dravidian classic, the Chilappathikaran made it clear that the first great kingdom of India was
Naganadu.
The Naga probably came from Kush-Punt/Ethiopia. The Puntites were the greatest sailors of the ancient world. In the Egyptian inscriptions there is mention of the Puntite ports of Outculit, Hamesu and Tekaru, which corresponds to Adulis, Hamasen and Tigre.
In Sumerian text, it is claimed that the Puntites traded with the people of the Indus Valley or Dilmun. According to S.N. Kramer in The Sumerians, part of Punt was probably called Meluhha, and Dilmun was probably the ancient name of the Indus Valley. (Today some scholars maintain that Oman, where we find no ancient cities was Dilmun and the Indus Valley may have been Meluhha).
Ancient Ethiopian traditions support the rule of Puntites or Ethiopians of India. In the Kebra Nagast, we find mention of the Arwe kings who ruled India. The founder of the dynasty was Za Besi Angabo. This dynasty according to the Kebra Nagast began around 1370 BC. These rulers of India and Ethiopia were called Nagas. The Kebra Nagast claims that ” Queen Makeda “had servants and merchants; they traded for her at sea and on land in the Indies and Aswan”. It also says that her son Ebna Hakim or Menelik I, made a campaign in the Indian Sea; the king of India made gifts and donations and prostrated himself before him”. It is also said that Menalik ruled an empire that extended from the rivers of Egypt (Blue Nile) to the west and from the south Shoa to eastern India”, according to the Kebra
Nagast. The Kebra Nagast identification of an eastern Indian empre ruled by
the Naga, corresponds to the Naga colonies in the Dekkan, and on the East
coast between the Kaviri and Vaigai rivers.
The presence of Meluhhaites/ Puntites in India may expain the Greek tradition of Kusites ruling India up to the Ganges. It would also explain the Aryan traditions of Mlechchas ( Sanskrit name for some of the non-Aryan people) as one of the aboriginal groups of India. Many scholars associate the name Mlechchas with Meluhha.
The major Naga tribes were the Maravar, Eyinar, Oliyar, Oviyar, Aru-Valur and Parathavar. The Nagas resisted the invansion of the Cholas. In the Kalittokai IV,1-5, the Naga are described as being “of strong limbs and hardy frames and fierce looking tigers wearing long and curled locks of hair.” The Naga kings of Sri Lanka are mentioned in the: Mahawanso, and are said to have later become Dravidians, as testified to by the names of these people: Naganathan, Nagaratnam, Nagaraja and etc.
The major gift of the Naga to India was the writing system: Nagari. Nagari is the name for the Sanskrit script. Over a hundred years ago Sir William Jones, pointed out that the ancient Ethiopic and Sanskrit writing are one and the same.
William Jones, explained that the Ethiopian origin of Sanskrit was supported by the fact that both writing systems the writing went from left to right and the vowels
were annexed to the consonants. Today Eurocentric scholars teach that Indians taught writing to the Ethiopians, yet the name Nagari for Sanskrit betrays the Ethiopia origin of this form of writing. Moreover, it is interesting to note that Sanskrit vowels: a,aa,’,I,u,e,o, virama etc., are in the same order as Geez.
The Ethiopian script has influenced many other writing systems. Y.M. Kobishnor, in the Unesco History of Africa, maintains that Ethiopic was used as the model for Armenian writing, as was many of the Transcaucasian scripts. Dravidian literature indicate that the Naga may have introduced worship of Kali, the Serpent, Murugan and the Sun or Krishna. It is interesting to note that a god called Murugan is worshipped by many people in East Africa.
It is interesting that Krishna, who was associated with the Sun, means Black, this is analogous to the meaning of Khons of the Kushites. Homer, described Hercules as follows: “Black he stood as night his bow uncased, his arrow string for flight”. This mention of arrows identifies the Kushites as warriors who
used the bow, a common weapon of the Kushites and the Naga.
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Kumarinadu
The Naga or Ethiopians were defeated by Dravidian speaking people from Kumarinadu. Kamarinadu is suppose to have formerly existed as a large Island in the India ocean which connected India with East Africa. This landmass is mentioned in the Silappadikaram, which said that Kamarinadu was made up of seven nadus or regions. The Dravidian scholars Adiyarkunallar and Nachinaar wrote about the ancient principalities of Tamilaham, which existed on Kamarinadu.
Kumarinadu was ruled by the Pandyans/Pandians at Madurai before it
sunk beneath the sea. The greatest king of Kumarinadu was Sengoon.
According to Dravidian scholars the Pandyans worshipped the goddess Kumari Amman. This Amman, probably corresponds to the ancient god Amon of the Kushites.
The Kalittokai 104, makes it clear that after the Pandyans were forced to migrate off their Island home into South India, “to compensate for the area lost to the great waves of the sea, King Pandia without tiresome moved to the other countries and won them. Removing the emblems of tiger (Cholas) and bow (Cheras) he, in their place inscribed his reputed emblem fish (Pandia’s) and valiantly made his enemies bow to him”.
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Many pakistanis and bengladeshis were members of the low castes during the period of hinduism.
This is why “Aryan” Indians despised them as well.
This is also why they adopted islam, in so high proportions, ie fleeing the unfair cast system
Many Pakistanis , Bengladeshis and even “aryan ” indians have “arab” blood into their vein, due to islam invasion troops.
Some of these guys, in London deserve serious slapping, I’m telling you, they’re so racist…
I remember one strange thing when I arrived in london, they call all the black men BOSS…Coming from Paris I didn’t understand the reason underneath…
When I asked one asian guy, he told me : ” This is how black folks called their master during slavery”…
Indian Slaves:
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/indian-slaves-in-south-africa-a-retrospect/
Response to Afrocentric Retards.
My posts on 04/26 were aimed to correct Clyde Winters lies in sugesting genetic association between South Indians and Africans and to dispell the ludricous theory that Ethiopians spread Sansrkit to India. Nowhere have I made racist comments or suggested that Indians were Aryans, and my outrage was directed at Afrocentricts. It is rather Jahdey who as used racist terms, not I.
If this will end the genetic debate…….BMC Genetics doi:10.1186/1471-2156-9-86 (watkins et al) shows conclusively that Tamils and South Indians have direct Y-chromosome haplotypes and mt-DNA links to North Indians and caucasians…….. Africa clusters with Arabs to an extent, but not India. (I did not check Shudras or those outside of the caste but they are aboroginal Indians)……
Also most of the Islamic invaders were Persians and Turkics…..they killed men and raped women and converted them to Islam….the product of these rapes is Pakistan….India is to an extent free of Arab blood.
The Andamanese cluster with orientals in Burma and Vietnam e.g. So am really not sure where Jahdey is getting his info……
Also, I never called Sanskrit an Aryan language. Aryan is a term that should never be used in a racial sense, simply because a pure race doesnt exist. I said classical Sanskrit is a root Indo-European language like Latin or Ancient Greek. Vedic Sanskrit is related to Proto-Germanic and its origins are lost in antiquity…..but it certainly didnt originate in Ethiopia. Also, much of the ancient Sanskrit literature is found in the Indus Valley, not in Africa…..which is also pretty far away from the South West coast of India……I doubt that a great army of Ethiopians on rafts, armed with sharpended sticks and rocks managed to fight their way through all the Hindu kingdoms to get there. Even Alexander the Great couldnt conquer the Indus valley region.
As for Indians who think they are Aryans…..well that is just as laughable as Clyde Winters theories……..as long as a Scandinavian walks, then Indians and Paks cannot use the word Aryan…….nobody should really. Yes, Hindus do mock one another and South Indians and other darkies from North India get ripped on all the time…….so what…… How often have Germans racially abused South Europeans……The Poles mock the Russians…Swedes look down on Finns…..yet theyre all European…..they dont become balck just because another group racially abuses them. So Jahdey, if some of your dark Indian friends think theyre black….then good for them. Unfortunately DNA tests wont support them, but thats their problem. And if Indian girls have black lovers, then who cares……certainly not I…….only a racist would object.
To enlighten you further Jahdey, small groups of Indians came to South Africa in 1860 to work on farms…..they signed 5 year contracts where they were paid a pittance, yet they worked hard paid off their travel costs ….some returned to India and others bought farms and stayed to develop South Africa. Therafter more passenger Indians arrived to set up businesses, etc….Remember a guy called Gandhi……The British realised that the local negroids were too lazy and incompetent to farm the land. Sure they called themselves warriors….running around half naked with their sticks…..but they had their chance in South Africa and did nothing with it. Slaves (like Jamaicans and African Americans) were forcibly taken and sold into slavery where they were not paid. South African Indians were contracted workers who were free men and received wages…..so get your facts checked Jahdey.
As a South African, I see how Afrocentric dumbasses are ruining my beloved country. I have seen what they have done to Rhodesia……So, I ask once again, that low self esteem, Afrocentric idiots stop trying to make themselves feel better by calling the wrong people black and apologise for insulting the people of Sanskrit descent.
Kalasa o thou wretched low caste twit
In India, the peoples of Gujarat, Kerala, Andaman, Nicobar Islands and the Siddis are direct descendants from Africa. There are more connections but these ones I will start with.
Sanskrit is related to Ethiopic you mindless bum. Dr. Winters is a renowned University Professor a hundred times more educated than the most educated member of your low caste tribe of ex-south African slaves.
The Indians brought to South Africa came as slaves. Your ancestors came as slaves which is why you do not know where you come from in India neither can you return back there again. You are a rootless, lower caste descendant of slavery..which is not to say there is anything wrong in that. But keep your facts straight. Check the links I posted for you.
Give me the names of those Y-DNA that Andamanese carry. And while you are at it, show me text that dissociates Y-DNA YAP or DE* from Africa. It is not simply a matter of regurgitating ill digested crap which you vomit back so violently. It is critical thinking and analysis that we need. Show me how HBSS gene in India is different from Africa; show me how the mt_DNA M1 is different from Africa.
The holiest books of India affirm that enlightenment came from Ethiopia. The first God of India was a dreadlock black man called Shiva…I suppose he has aryan DNA like your bastardized Paki chromosome.
I gave you names of some prominent chromosome shared by Africans and Indians and I will recap again to shame you more: Y-DNA: DE*, E, YAP, K2; mt-DNA: M1, HBSS autosome genes. What do you have to oppose these truths?
Finally, you are not an Indian. You know not where you are from in India. You are homeless, tribeless, and friendless since you stink.
You are not South African…you cannot be an African by your own admission so you are going to remain a twerp without any pedigree. A bastardized and sodomized Asian monkey, digusting in your stark and pitiful self loathing.
Go find your so-called “white” boyfriends to sodomize you some more…so that you will hate even your shadow that follows you.
Wretched homeless dog! Lover of junk, spunk and vomit.
Yes these Indians are racists, but man your comments were a bit too heavy and insulting though.
Sir, You do not deserve to be called khalsa. Your comments are laughable as well as rude!
british mi5 blind traveling agents for britan do not farewell on rasta livewire.we never thought we were TOLD WE WERE black IN ABAD WAY ,WE MAKE OR CREATE ANYTHING TO BE GOOD EVEN IF ITS GIVEN TO US ,PUT ON US IN A BAD WAY ,indian which ALSO means black ,indigo is a brand of the queen.whoever uses it is a slave in their own right even if mentally.im indiginous aboriginal,so if i say im indian im saying im 500-600 years old instead of indiginous aboriginal.you move about the globe under british U.N. ILLUMINATI control.THEN YOU ATTEMPT TO SOUND INTELLIGENT.REMEMBER WHEN AN WHY YOU GOT KICKED OUT OF KENYA BEFORE WITH THE EUROPEANS.YOUR ALL OVER THE WORLD IN OTHER PEOPLES LANDS CRITICIZNG THE PEOPLE WHOS LANDS FEEDS YOU.YOU DONT MENTION THE TAKING OF THE LAND BY THE RHODES FAMILY FROM THE DE BEERS FAMILY AN THEM SELLING IT ABOUT TO OTHER EUROPEAN PROSPECTORS WHO UINVADED SOUTH AFRICA TO RAPE AN AN YOU WERE THEIR SERVANTS THEY BOUGHT ALONG ,THEIR NEW NEGROES.NECRO NOT OF THE LIVING A DEAD BRAINED ZOMBIE PEOPLE AGAINST THE REAL OWNERSOF THE LAND IN SOUTH AKEBULAN……..YOU CALLED THE DALITS BLACK AN OUTCASTES AN THE ORIGINAL HINDUS ARE DALITS ,YOUR INNER CASTE SYSYEMS ALSO STOLEN FROM MOORISH SCIENCE AN CONVERTED INTO RACIST ,EUGENIC SCIENCE,MALE CHAUVANISTIC CASTE SYSTEMS THAT ,HAS THE LIGHTER SKINNED OVER THE DARKER JUST CAUSE OF SHADE .THERE IS NO ORIGIN OF THAT FROM THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE WHO CAME UP FROM THE INDUS VALLEY.YOU ARE NOT A NOBLE MUUR BUT A BRITISH/DUTCH ALBION HOER SERVING YOUR MASTERS FROM YOUR KNEES.THE WORD NEGROID STILL BEING USED BY YOU HUH ,HOW BOUT CAUCASOID ,MONGOLOID,lets stop right here we dont get along with you FROM ANCIENT TIMES,the dalits came back to akebulan FROM HINDUSTAN first to get the troglydyte chimpanzee monkey,then they grafted that monkey to creAte mankind WE HAD A WAR ABOUT THAT,YOU GRAFTING PEOPLE,WHITE PEOPLE ,YACOUB WAS JACOB IN EURO BIBLE,in the koran THE GRAFTED ARE the blue eyed,the RNA not DNA US , BOTH OF US CAUSE WE USED TO BE ONE.MUURISH PEOPLE AN ANTIQUITY.UNTIL THE VEDICS CAME FROM EUROPE.YOU ARE GETTING YOUR INFO FROM THE SAME PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THEIR SOCIETY REJECTS ON A BOAT TO AMERCA AS INDENTURED SERVITUDE SLAVES.AN BOUGHT YOU WITH THEM IN THEIR INVASIONS OF AFRICA,WHY ARE YOU IN EVERY COLONY IN THE CARRIBEAN ALSO.WHY CAN YOU COME WHERE WE ARE TO EAT BUT WE HAVE NO OPPUTUNITIES IN YOUR LANDS EXCEPT TO DEFEND THEM IN OUR ARMIES FROM THE WEST.THE REALITY HINDUS THAT REMEMBER THEY WERE MUURS NOT BRITISH HOERS THAT GET PROMISED A PIECE OF THE PIE AS .LONG AS THEY HELP TO STEAL AN NOT REVEAL IT.MAY YOUR INTESTINES WRAP AROUND YOUR TOUNGUE ,SIEZE IT THEN BRING IT DOWN TO BE CRUSHED BY THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM THEN THROWN AWAY AS EXCREMENT.YOCANNOT REPLACE THE DALITS AS THE ORIGINAL north asiatic MAN NO MATTER HOW MUCH CRAcKER x,y,z CHROMOSOME TALK YOU BRING unTO THE TAble,you bring CRUMBS,XYZ COME AFTER A,B,C ,WHICH AREALLTHE ORIGINMAL ASIATICS SOUTH AN NORTH,PEOPLE NEVER CAME FOM THE NORTH AN WENT SOUTH ,WE WENT FROM SOUTH TO NORTH AN WE WAS FIRST .THOSE AFTER CAME FROM NORTH TO SOUTH CAUSE THEY FROM THE NORTH CREATED IN THE SOUTH OF NORTH ASIA THEN WHATS NOW SOUTH AMERICA ,ARGENTINA ,PATAGONIA BUT THATS NOT IN YOUR REASEARCH BOOKS PUBLISHED ONL Y BY EUROPEANS OR THEIR A-ALIKE CREATIONS OF MIXEDRACE LIKE YOU SINCE YOU CLAIM TO BE INDIAN WHICH MEANT BLACK BEFORE THEY FOUND THE WEST IN 1492. RECREATIONAL RECREATION REINCARNATION IS A CRIME AGAINST THE ORIGINAL WOMBMAN AND MAN THAT MUST CEASE AND DESIST IN ORDER FOR THE PLANET TO PROPERLY BALANCE ITSELF.SUBPHRASETO DESCRIBE USTHAT ARE NOT OUR NATURAL NAMES MUST BE CHECKED EAH TIME THEY USETHE MASONIC MAGICIANS ARGUMENTSAGAINST US,FOR OVERSTAND THAT YOU ARE THE REAL ADEPTS GIVEN LESSONS BY THOSE WHO STEAL SEAL AND CONCEAL THE DEGREES THEY STOLE FROM HIRAM ABIFF WHo WAS KILLED FOR DEGREES.REALLY A MONK NAMED SYLVESTOR WAS BRIBED WITH AN SUM SIMLIAR TO 30 PIECES OF SILVER FOR 3 DEGREES.HIZZZTORY BOOKS EVEN IN UNIVERSITYS ARE NOT TELLING REALITY BUT A DERIVITIVE OF IT CALLED TRUTH ,their truth , PUBLISHERS ARE UNDEr THE YOKE OF ZION BEING FREE MASONS WHO FILTERS what information is let out to the public goyim all under measure an rule.some people think they are above that measurean rule by favors they do for measure an rule l,like maintain their bull$*&^like a bull$^&*keeper or store person.they opeate a bull%&*^ store that you have to agree to buy or buy into.look at black books by say john henrik clarke an notice in the bibliography how mayny euro books he had to read an take a s-word ,a sentance ,or a paragraph out of each of them to write one book about our hidden stolen reality of the original one and onlys.these are just the beginnings ,surface scratchings that were revealed but much moor remains hidden ny the masonic zionists who practice moorish science an call it free masonry,an give the goyim religion to fight over an be distracted
i will stand and stay on my square with jah dey my sword is drawn an today i reveal all 4 of my titles NOT THE USUAL 3 like the number 4 of standing on ONES sqaURE.ALL MUURS ARE THE NOBLES.WHO STOLE YOUR CLAIM AN SAID YOU ABANDONED IT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, AN HOLD IT HOSTAGE WITH SHADE OF RED RUDDY MYSTIC AMAZON HUE,NOT ME OR YOU BUT VEDIC ALBIONS DO,CARBONLESS CARPETBAGGERS WHO CAME TO GYP EVERYONE THEY COULDNT BE AN CALL US ME THEY GYPSY AFTER LEARNING MY POWERS FROM ME
Poor braindead Afrocentrics.
Sometimes a little bit of education can be dangerous for simple minds…..as typified by the so-called academic Clyde Winters (nice Anglo-Saxon name by the way).
Racial genetic profiling is a widely accepted and published science. Contrary to the fancy terms Jahdey has bandied, the key genetic marker is dependent on autosomal DNA mapping. The gentic origins of upper caste Hindus, is related to haplotype R1…..standard genetic marker for Indo-Europeans…in particularly haplogroup R1b…..most common to central and eastern Europe and the Indus region. These Indo_European tribes then formed groups thoughout India and South India……as far as south as Sri-Linka. It is also common knowledge that non-Africans are genetically different from negroid Africans…….they have different unrelated ancetors……
BTW, humans have a 98% genetic relationhip to Bonnobo Apes……thats what 2% difference in genotype shows in a phenotype (external characteristics)……..
The Andamese are not Hindus, but sinno-Tibetans islanders….like the Burmese. Their DNA make-up is therefore irrelevant. The Naga people that the idiot Winters talks about, are actually people from Burma…..of oriental extraction…(check out these Naga tribes….http://www.markajohnson.com/Asiat05.html). The Naga are certainly not from Ethiopia……..The Sidi are just negroid slaves brought to India by the British…..God knows why….its not as if India needed any more low-class thrash, but there u have them….Sidis living in the bushes and jungles like animals, totally excluded from Hindhu society. It is a fallacy to things that there was a great, ancient naval Negroid migration to Europe and Asia……Negroid tribes had not even discovered iron and metals….how could they conquer any army or build a ship???
No Hindu holy book talks about Ethiopians……… the great Aryan migrations are detailed instead, focusing on the Harrapan civilizations and there are clear linguistic links between the Indo-European people, backed up by archaelogical studies…..Sanskrit being one of the root languages……so will the Afrocentric thrash please give this debate a rest…..
What studies have the Afrocentric buffoons put forth….other than finding superficial links with words and names. Please….think people….
Not that this matters………I have clear roots…….My grand-parents left the Panjab to come help develop South Africa……Every Hindu has roots….regardless of where in the world he settles. The simplest way to check this is our surnames……my surname places me in a specific region and even a village can be found.Then there is the DNA, which has been discussed. But , I was born in Africa, spillt my blood here, and that makes me a pure African.
I think it is extremely poor form of Afrocentrists to falsely denegrate South African Hindus……we have after all, together with the British helped save South Africa and develop it into the powerhouse it is now in Africa……The contribution of the Trek-Boers, is even more significant….they are the true natives people of South Africa.
The Boers or Voortrekkers, travelled into South Africa, peacefully with the intention of cultivating and developing my beloved country….but were instead tricked and murdered by cowards like the so-called Zulu king, Dingaan…..a fat stupid bastard who the current Zulu royal family descends from. South African history shows that Shaka, the founder of the Zulus, was a great admirer of the British and was happy to live side by side with them and learn…….a great man this Shaka….but then murdered by Dingaan.
It is also, widely accepted that the negroid races were not idigenous to South Africa…..they (Bantu and Nguni tribes, actually migrated from the Congo)…….we accepted these people in South Africa, and instead of thanks, all we get is whining and complaints…… I think an apology here, from the ANC and the Afrocentric retards is in order.
NOTHING WILL REST UNTIL ITS DEAD,THE LIE WILL DIE once again your muther is not here to defend herself FAKE CIA SENDER TO MY E MAIL,it is she THE BRAIN DEAD that naMED OTHERS THAT AN TOLD YOU WHAT TO TELL PEOPLE THEY WERE.YOU DONT KNOW WHERE YOUR FROM NOT REALLY .UPPER CASTE SYSTEM ,LOWER ASS SYSTEM ,IT MEANS YOU LOWER YOURS TO BOW DOWN TO THEIRS AN PUCKER UP TO SUCK ON IT.I KNOW IM NOT AFROCENTRIC ,UNLESS AFRICA IS AMERICA WHICH IT WAS UNTIL 204A.D.so many holes in your derivitive of reality your truth,LETS JUST GRAB ONE AT RANDOM ,KILL THE HEAD THE BODY WILL FALL TO SLAY A LIE.NO HINDU HOLY BOOKS TALK ABOUT ETHIOPIANS ,DAMN THIS ONES EASY ,,”[ NDA]REMEBER WHO SAID” COME ALL YE ASIATICS YOU ARE NOT NEGRO COLORED OR ETHIOPIAN,SOBRIQUETS FICTITIOUS SOCIAL AND POLITICAL CREATIONS OF EUROPEAN SOCIOLOGISTS AND THE MANY DECEPTIVE HISTORIAN DESCENDANTS OF THE COLONIAL INQUSITIONISTS AND CRUSADERS.THE WORDS INDIAN NEGRO COLORED ETHIOPIAN ECT ECT WERE AND ARE BRANDS AN TAGS [noble drew ali]“.YOU A SIMPLE TAG A BRAND CANNOT MAKE A POINT THATS VALID BECAUSE IN LAW YOU ARE ARGUING AN CLAIMING TO BE ARTIFICIALLY CREATED BY ANOTHER MAN NOT THE WOMB.INDIAN IS NOT OR MEANS WHAT EUROPEANS RENAMED THE NATION STATE TO FROM HINDUSTAN.YOU MUTHER WHO TAUGHT YOU IS THE SIMPLE MIND ,GOD IS WHITE LIGHT BRIGHT IS THE SIMPLE MIND THATS PEOPLE CANNOT RETURN TO THE UNIVERSE AN BE ON MONTELL WILLIAMS STUCK IN THE 4TH DIMENSION CALLING BACK HERE TO THOSE WHO WORSHIPTHE DEAD.RACIAL GENETIC PROFILING IS EUGENICS BY THE LAST MAN RAISED,A LITTLE BIT OF EDUCATION IS THE GERMAN PRUSSIAN SYSTEM THAT YOU ARE KICKING ,BEING A BEY LIKE BEYER ASPRIN GERMANY THE INVADERSFROM THE WESTOF HIDUSTAN EQUAL THE INVADERSOF THE WESTERN HEMISPHEREAN THE LIE TO MAKE ALL IN THE NAME OF SOME GOD OR IN THIS CASE HINDU CASTE SYSTEMSTHAT GO BY SKIN TONE FROM THE PEOPLE WH INVENTED RACE NORTH ASIATIC ALCHEMISTS ,YOU ARE A LITTLE BIT WE ARE MUUR.YOU TOOK DABONOBO AN CHIMPANZEE TO GRAFT .WE ARE FROM ATLANTIS ,LUMURIA FAR BEFORE YOU,WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE ,YOU USED TO MUURS ,AN YOU COME FROM US .YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT OF ALL MY COMMENTS BY WHAT YOUR SAYING.AN HOW YOUR SAYING IT.WE ARE THE ONLY ONES YOU DIDNT CLONE TO CREATE TO SERVE YOU ,WE ARE THE HUMAN RACE THE ORIGINAL TYPE -0,ORIGINAL MAN ,ITS YOUR CLONING THAT CREATED ALL THE POSITIVRE BLOOD TYPES A ,B AB THAT EXIST ON THIS PLANET TODAY AN ARE THE MOST DISEASED CARRYING FROM LACK OF MELANIN WHICH IS WHAT THE LEPERS WERE THAT WERE CREATED ,THATS WHY YOU DONT LIKE TO ADMIT THAT YOU WERE MUURS CAUSE OF WHAT YOU DID INVENTING MAN KIND AND BANNING HIM TO THE CAUCUS MOUNTAINS .THE SAME MAN KIND WHO NOW RULES EVEN YOU.YOUR HEREWITH HIS EVEDENCE OR FALSE EVIDENCE APPEARING REAL F.E.A.R.,,,WHAT IS IT NOW A NATIONALITY OR RELIGION ,NATIONALITY REDUCED TO RELIGION,MANY GODS WORSHIPPED BESIDES CREATOR OF UNIVERSE LIKE THE RATS WORSHIPPED IN ONE AREA ,ALLOTHERSARE ONLY 6000 YEARS OLD EXCEPT ASIATICS NOW SPLIT UP INTO FRACTIONS .YOUR THE PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED BUT YOU PROVE THAT YOU STAND ON A WEAK FALSE PLATFORM NY THE VOCABULARY YOU USE TO DECRIBE OTHER MUURS LIKE YOUR SELF WHICH ISALL YOU WERE AN INDIAN IS BENEATH THE CREATOR OF THAT EXPESSION TO DENOBILIZE THE PEOPLE IT HAS BEEN APPLIED ,THATSWHY IT SAYSIN THE LAW AN INDIAN WILLNNOT BE ENTITLED TO BECOME A NATURALIZED CITIZEN OF THEUNITED STATES AS BEING A FREE WHITE PERSON,YOUR A BRAND LIKE FROSTED FLAKES AN YOUR PROMOTING AN AGREEING TO BE THE BRAND .JUST NEW NEGRIOD,INDIAN , CREATED BY THE CAUCUS OF THE ASIAN AN PUT IN FAVOR OVER ORIGINAL PEOPLE OF LAND JUST LIKE IN AMERICA 1492 AND ON AFTER ROMAN OCCUPATION.MUURISH SEAL ON LEFT SIDE OF DOLLAR BILL.I STAND ON THE RECORD WITH MY FIRST COMMENT MASSA ,,,,COLORED IN SOTH AFRICA MAN IS THE ONLY REASON YOU GOT ON THAT LAND OR OFF IT WITH YOUR LIFE.YOU STARTED DEGENERATING WITH YOUR RACIALGENETIC PROFILING FROM THE PEOPLE YOU INVENTED WITH YOUR CLONING FROM PRACTICING THE MOORISH SCIENCE OF ALCHEMY.TREK BOERS DUTCH HOERS.ONCEAGAIN YOU ARE A LITTLE BIT OF NO A L OT OF,,,,,,,,,,,,,, DEAD U CATION, ZOMBIE UNIVERSITY
YOUR WHOLE PLATFORM ,ARGUMENT ,IS BASED ON A AFTER THOUGHT,AFTER YOU WERE THOUGH OF AND THEM YOU CLONED.
Jahdey,
What you say is absolute nonsense. The mt-DNA of India is uniform for the most part (M which is of Asian origin and U which is of W. Asian origin and some R also of W. Asian origin). The Y chromosome of Indians are R1a, R2, L & H all believed to have originated either C. Asia or India. The people of Andaman Is. have nothing to do with Indians, genetically, culturally or linguistically. The Andamese are the relict populations from the first migration out of NE Africa and they are on an island 1,000 miles away from India and closer to Thailand. The Y-chromosome of the Andamanese is D which is totally absent in India even among the Australoid tribals. There has not been any significant genetic input into India in the last 10,000 years. And this artificial divide between Aryans and Dravidians is just that – artificial. The mt-DNA of all Indians except for the tribals and Siddis is UNIFORM. Also, YAP is not present AT ALL in India. The M1 mt-DNA in East Africans is thought to be different than that of India. Some geneticists believe that it was a back migration from W. Asia and others believe that is originated near S. Asia.
Neither Tamils nor the Dravidians are black though they do have dark skin. Craniometrics has repeatedly shown that Dravidians are a Mediterranean caucasoid. Read both Luca Cavalli-Sforza and William Howells, neither of whom is a racist so don’t bother going there. Even the tribals are Australoids who are a back migration into India from SE Asia.
And NONE of the sacred Indian texts refer to Ethiopia. The furthest west they refer to is Iran.
Clyde Winters is a joke. No one except you Afrocentrics takes him seriously. He makes things up. He’s so discredited that I can’t even find his books at our local library. Did it ever occur to you that if Sanskrit originated in Ethiopia, why is it no longer spoken there. It’s still exists in India. Our names are Sanskrit based. Our language is Sanskrit based. And Sanskrit words have commonalities with Greek & Italian but not with any African languages. All Indian languages including Tamil has a significant percentage of Sanskrit.
Rani you have the wrong information completely misinterpretated and thus ignorantly applied. I will correct some of your false information and weak logic. Now follow me carefully:
Rani squeaks
The Y chromosome of Indians are R1a, R2, L & H all believed to have originated either C. Asia or India.
Jahdey responds:
“R* underived R Y-DNA haplogroup is related to R1a, and R2. It is probably ancestral to R1a and R2. Research work on R* continues and by this years ending scientist will be making interesting reports on the relationshi between R* and the rest of the R branch. R* comes from Cameroon. R1b has also been found in Congo. Noone has been able to explain the tracks of the R family and how come they are found in diverse places, sometime in Isolates among a sea of other groups. The only consensus though is that the R family of Haplogroups are inter-related. If R exists in some ancestral forms in Africa, then Rani you are obviously on the wrong logical track.
Rani still squeaking:
“The Y-chromosome of the Andamanese is D which is totally absent in India even among the Australoid tribals. ”
Jahdey roars:
“Rani you are either lieing or you have been completely mislead by foolish philosophies and wishful thinking. Andamanese genetically related to South Indians, via the Y-Chromosome Haplogroup YAP-ve, DE, O, E, D, and ofcourse the female Mt-DNA M4. (See Kivisild et al. 1999).
Rani conflated:
“The M1 mt-DNA in East Africans is thought to be different than that of India. Some geneticists believe that it was a back migration from W. Asia and others believe that is originated near S. Asia. ”
Jahdey roars:
“Rani, you are obviously confused or very green as is evidenced by your rambling above. You cannot affirm and disaffirm in the same frame of logic. Either mt-DNA M found in India is relate to that found in East Africa or it is not. Which one is it? Make up your mind on your next party line and provide explanation and authorities. How is the mt-DNA found in East Africa different than the one which is the mother of all Indians as you just admitted? How is the mt-DNA found in East
Africa a back migration of the one in India when in the same breath you said that there were “not thought” to be related?”
Rani rambles:
” Did it ever occur to you that if Sanskrit originated in Ethiopia, why is it no longer spoken there. It’s still exists in India.”
Jahdey responds:
“Rani, Sanskrit is a dead language even in India. You may need to consult the works of Clyde Winters to gain a better understanding of Sanskrit and Ethioipic. Dr. Winters is a Professor of Linguistic studies and has been published in several well resepcted journals. This final mistaken assumption just shows you know nothing about India otherwise you would not have made that false sentence. You are just one pretender faking so you can continue lieing and hating. Here on Rastalivewire we have Doctors who can heal you…and ye shall be healed. Be healed Rani…be healed with the fires of truth….”
THE ORIGINAL MAN IS INDIGINOUS TO AKEBULAN IN THE SOUTH ,NEGROID CAME AFTER INVASIONS BY EUROPEANS AN THEIR SIDEKICKS.THOSE PEOPLEARE NICE CAUSE THEY COULDNT LIVE IN INDIA THATS WHY THEY SHOULD DO TO YOU WHAT YOU WOULD DO TO THEM , THEY DONT CAUSE YOU STILL TALKING ,THEONLY APOLOGY IS NEEDED FROM THOSE WHGO CANT STAY ON THEOR OWN LAND CAUSE THEY DONT OWN IT AN COME ABROAD IN THE NAME OF THE QUEEN TO DO HER DIRTY WORK.ALL PRECIOUS METALS ARE FROM THEIR THAYT RUN THE WORLD AN THATS WHY CONTROL OF THEM DETERMINES WHO RULES THIS PLANET.YOY MUST MAKE IR LOK AS IF THEY DONT HAVE ECONOMIC SKILLS TO JUSTIFY THERAPING OF THE LAND BY OUTSIDERS COMING IN FOR PROFIT AN RAT LIKE OPPURTUNITYS,CHEESE IS THE CHEDDAR YOU CRAVE ,DINERO ANYONES HEAD GOTTA GO YOU CAN STAY IN AFRICA BUT YOU NEED TO GET THE HELL OUT OF MY LAND ,I MEAN ALL YOUR PEOPLE LIKE YOU,JUST STAY YOUR SORRY SELF WHERE YOU ARE AN CALL YOU FAMILY TO COME HOME WITH YOU.,WE GET STUCK WITH THAT FEMALE DOG NAME OF YOUR ILK FROM THE EAST ,LOOKING DOWN ON YOUR CARRIBEAN BRETHERIN ,AN INDIAN AINT NOTHING TO BRAG ABOUT FROM THE EAST AS A MATTER OF FACT ITS NOTHING.WHERE YOU SPILLYOUR BLOOD OUTSIDE OF INDIA THE NATION STATE IS NOTHING.BUNCH OF PEOPLE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO LOOK DOWN ON.HOW CAN YOU CALL PEOPLE DUMB WHEN ITS YOU WHO FORGOT WHERE YOU CAME FROM
One haplotype does not say anything at all about a peoples origins. All it says is that one shares a haplotype and some ancestors that were related at one time. people of Northern India are of diverse origin as with all people whose civilizations have been a zone of confluence.
The Nagas according to early texts were the peoples of Tamil, Tulu and Malayalam affiliation as Winters, and most Indian sources say called Palavars and Malavars some of whom still live in Shri lanka and other places under their names who had at one time occupied North Western india and in ancient times also settled in southern India and as far east as Burma. Just because modern people of Burma call themselves Nagas does not mean the Nagas of the ancient world were more like modern Burmese than like Malayalam. Some have suggested the Malayalam Buddhists who were became Sudras were those called Nagas.
Andaman peoples have little to do with Dravidians. Early Dravidians were a predominantly dolichocephalic population. Also, Austronesian was a term European colonialists used for any dark-skinned South Asian population they couldn’t fit into their hamitic speaking “Mediterranean” category. It included indigenous peoples of Australia, and peoples called “Negritos” as well as Dravidian and Sabara-Kol speakers.
Rani squeals:
“Neither Tamils nor the Dravidians are black though they do have dark skin.”
Jahdey comments:
“LOL!!! An oxymoronic piece of logical torture via waterboarding”
Jahdey,
Insulting me doesn’t make your point. The paper that you cite clearly states that the vast majority of India’s population is Caucasoid. This alone negates any recent African ancestry of Indians. Secondly, Indians cluster more closely with West Eurasians both in skull structure and genetic markers. And here is what Kivisild says about Indian Y-haplogroups.
“Yet Indians lack the YAP+ varieties, with the only exceptions being groups documented as being recent immigrants, the
Siddis (Thangaraj et al. 1999) and Parsees (our unpublished
observation).”
And here’s something else that Kivisild says:
“The absence of HpaI site at nucleotide position (np) 3592 among Indians seems clearly to negate any recent substatial gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa to the peninsula.”
Spencer Wells, Stephen Oppenheimer, Luca Cavalli-Sforza all say the same thing.
Here’s what Kivisild says about Indian Y-haplogroups:
“In fact, most Indian Y chromosomes cluster in haplogroups that are typical of European and western Asian populations (Rosser
et al. 2000), but infrequent or even absent in eastern Asia (Su et al. 1999).”
And here’s his view on mtDNA of Indians: “Indian maternal lineages cluster more closely with populations of East
Asia.”
With respect to Sanskrit, it is not as dead as you think. Sanskrit is still taught in schools. In fact, my husband is a Sanskrit scholar. Religious functions are conducted in Sanskrit. Sanskrit is part of our everyday language. A large % of all Indian languages is Sanskrit.
With regard to R haplogroup, Spencer Wells & Cavalli-Sforza cite C. Asia as the origin whereas Oppenheimer and Kivisild believe it is around Indus Valley. You offer no proof that Cameroon is its origin. And the one found in Cameroon is R1b which is common among Western Europeans not Indians.
And what do you mean I know nothing about India. I’m Indian, lived there for decades. You’re not even Indian and you are trying to tell me about my history. No wonder people get irritated.
Cruciani 2002 and Luis 2004 hypothesized that haplogroup K2 and paragroup R* must have arisen as a result of somoe “back migration” from India to Africa.
The main reason they hold this view is that haplogroup K2 and paragroup R* have onlly been observed in high frequencies in Africa. However, both are the cladistic brothers of otherwise Asiatic macro haplogroup K.
As a result of this perceived relationship the geneticists have wrongly attributed a “back-migration” as the solution. Yet this back-migration theory is not supported by any historical or archeological evidence.
It is simply wishful thinking. On the converse, we have historical and archeological verification of waves of migration from Africa into the Indian sub-continent commencing more than 60,000 years ago and continued through the Egyptian, Ethiopian, Sabean, Persian Greek and Arab networks.
There are historical accounts of African princes who have ruled parts of India like Malik Ambar. There are confirmed African communities which have been settled on the sub-continent of India for more than 1,500 years now.
There are no accounts of any ancient or historical Indian prince who ruled in Africa or Indian community which ever settled on the African main land except those brought there by the British. Think a minute for yourself then and decide which way went the migrations.
Consequently, since all confirmed evidence point to migrations from Africa to India, then, whenever one finds genetic linkages between Africans and Indians, one must not then assume fantasies which never occurred. One must proceed upon a historical assumption that it was the Africans who went there to India. It is Africa which gave birth to India and still inspires India.
Bearing this in mind, we then consider that mtDNA M1 and U6 occur both in Africa and India. African M1 is considered the mother of Indian M1. Indian M1 is the mother of most Indians.
There are many hungry dogs and hyenas among the Indian nations, uncultured vultures who are still suffering from what is called Stockholm syndrome in Psychiatry medicine. This occurs when a victim has been so completely subjugated to the will of the abuser that the victim looses its identity in the more dominant identity of its abuser. It thus becomes the greatest sympathizer and adorer of its very victimizer, abuser and oppressor.
That is the vibe that oppresses people like Rani, a lover of the West and albino Kalasha, the pseudo-Hindu who knoweth not his left or right.
Classical Sanskrit is not dead.
It is formally taught at university level in a number of civilised countries and is a ceremonial language often used in religious ceremonies etc. (I used it this weekend at a wedding).
Also the Sanscrit based script is not called nagari……Modern Hindi is often written in Devanagari…..a very recent term derived from the odler Gupta script. Why its now called nagari I cannot explain (reference needed).
Could the author Dr. Winters (no affiliation or credible publications found) substantiate where in Ethiopia, Sanskrit is still practised and a genetic and archaological link between Ethiopians and Nagas and Hindus.
This defies logic and I feel nothing but pity for afrocentric scholars.
Nevertheless, the Indo-European heartland is not India, but Lithuania. This is probably where the early Aryan migrations to Hindustan started.
Additionally, Lithuanian has a large percentage of Sanskrit derived words (40% according to linguists, http://www.lituanus.org/1982_1/82_1_01.htm).
(Paul Thieme, 1958, 74,).
Sanskrit sunus son – Lith. sunus;
Sanskrit viras man – Lith. vyras;
Sanskrit avis sheep – Lith. avis;
Sanskrit dhumas smoke – Lith. dumas;
Sanskrit padas sole – Lith. padas.
For more info, contact, WILLIAM R. SCHMALSTIEG
The Pennsylvania State University
” The old sanskrit geographers applied the term CUSHA-DWIPA to very nearly the same regions which the ancient Greeks described Ethiopia. It included Arabia, Asia Minor, Syria from the mouths of the Nile, Armenia, the countries on the Euphrates and Tigris, a large part of the region North of the Persian Gulf,and finally an extended region in Africa….” P 65
“….In remote pre-historic times it was the richest, most populous, and most enlightened portion of the world. Cusha-Dwipa was in two parts; so according to Homer and the Greeks was Ethiopia divided into two parts, one being Asiatic and the other African…” P 65
“…. It is now admitted that a people of the cushite or Ethiopian Race, sometimes called Hamites, were the first civilizers and builders throughout Western Asia, and they are traced, by remains of their langage, their architecture, and the influence of their civilization, on both shores of the Mediterranean, in Eastern Africa and the Nile Valley, in Hindustan and in he islands of the Indian seas”… P 65 – 66
in “Pre-Historic Nations” ; John D Baldwin
screw penn state you explored an settled in lithuaniain ancient times when you were muurs ,thats your east indian problem cause your a creation of your clones,dutch east india hoers for boers,its your zionistic SERVERS who attempt to replace aN SHUT US OUT WHAT WE CREATED,WE SEE WHAT YOU CREATED ,GEORGE BUSH FOR EXAMPLE AND ALL THE BLOODLINES OF ILLUMUNATI ,YOUR MOTHER IS AFROCENTRIC CAUSE YUR MOTHERS YOUR FATHER AFRO,AFRICAN AFRO AMERICAN ,NON SENSE TRICKS
NOW YA GOT NEHESY AND DANA IN IT ,I LOVE WHEN Y ALL DO THIS CAUSE THEY JUST KEEP FINDING MUUR AM MUUR THAT HAS BEEN HIDDEN,WIILIAM PENNSYLVANIA FROM TRANSYLVANIA LIKE DRACULA STATE LIKE ALLTHE U.S PEOPLE HAVE ALL CAPITAL LETTER STRAWMAN ACCOUNTS DRACULA FRONTING AS NATURAL NAMES OF NATURAL PEOPLE,PENN STATE PENN COLONY,if you read your name on a document or contract an sign an it looks like mine on the side right here then you are a commerece slave,,the all caps kills all natural self i self rights in law
does your name look like this indian in india ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in the usa yes , commerce slavery ,how bout south africa .colored people are th hindus,the nerve of you t bring goat knowledge baphome knowledge ,we got wolly hair like sheep you are the root of goat hair an weaker blood types ,you still come from us .bottom line ,south went to north not north to south first in the east now the beast
I would like to know what part of India Rani lives in that she hasn’t seen Tamils nearly as black as the hair on her head and that of every other Indian’s for that matter. Maybe she should take a visit to Shri Lanka or at least some area south of Bollywood.
Sanskrit is supposed to have originated from Prakrit and the Mlechhas. Like every other Indic or Indic Iranian dialect it probably originated less than 2,500 years ago out of the so called semitic and Ural Altaic languages. The earliest known presence of Indi Iranian dialect is with the Maitanni or ancestral Medes people of western Asia (the original Aryans of Herodotus whose name he said was adopted by Soma using Scythians) who probably are a legacy of the Afro-Arabian (Amurru) Hyksos populations who settled Canaan and other places. Any other theory is just an extrapolation.
It is quite possible then that the early Prakrit dialects were introduced to the Indian peninsula as Iran by the tall pastoral dark-skinned shepherds who originally lived in Arabia and Nubia where they were called Meluchhas. The name of the tribe of Amlukh, a batn or clan of the Rahawein Himyaris is mentioned as late as the 20th century in the Arabian side of the Persian Gulf by colonial explorers.
Sanskrit is said to hav been derived from Prakrit supposedly a Meluhha dialect. The earliest traces of the Indic Iranian dialect goes back to the 2nd millenium Maitanni kingdom or early Medes whom Herodotus said were the original “Aryans”, before the Soma using Scythians adopted their name.
The Medes or Maitani were probably remnants of the Hyksos tribes of Arabians who had colonized Syria or Canaan and other parts of the Near East whose original semitic dialects mixed with the preceding Ural Altaic .
It makes sense that these early Medes were descendants of the tall pastoral Arabians known historically as Meluhha (circa 2000BC) who are thought to have lived on the Persian Gulf as well as in Nubia. People called Amlukh or Amlekh are mentioned both in Islamic times as a batn or of the Rahawein tribe (Sabaeans), and by colonial explorers as late as the 19th century in Oman. These Meluhha thus were probably not so much Dravidian related as related to the tall so called “Hamitic” or “Afro-Asiatic ) type today stretching between East Africa and the Persian Gulf states. The early tall dark-brown Jat populations mentioned in early Arabic writings. The Jat names like Mahra and Qamar are also the names of Arabian tribes of east African affiliation.
excuse me why is it considered racist if scholars say that indians have genetic roots from Africa What’s wrong with being african..just proves how indians are sooo racist against blacks. It’s Indians who are racist! who always want to relate themselves to fucking europeans. This man is a scholar and I doubt he will get any benefit by proving that there is african DNA in India. Why should one be ashamed of their african roots!!!?
Nisha, go take a look at Blacks and their history and you will see why.
Go where Khush to the U.S. white house – where a black man lives?
Nisha – if the high caste Hindus had their way, they would be even attributing their sense of rhythym to European ancestors and claiming it was brought to the darker types of Dravidians and other Indians – who they are now claiming are not the true Dravidians. . I had East Indian acquaintances of low caste or untouchables (Daalit) who swear Indians are the most racist people on earth. But one need not be told that by other Indians to know there is a lot of basis to their beliefs, and I say that as someone who though black has some ancestors derived from north west India among the first indentured Indians in the U.S. Actually I will be tactful and say many Indians from India and particularly upper caste Hindus are among people most fearful of their own blackness in the world. While others are among the most humble and accepting of who they are and who you are. You find such extremes in different areas of life among all peoples.
We so called “black people” I am sure you will agree have our own set of problems obviously that I also find it more than difficult to tolerate at times, but I will not air dirty laundry here – at least not now .
I heard even d Gandhiji had some racism in him living in Africa. However, it is important for us not to assume that all Indians are like these upper caste Indians who can’t stand anything to do with blackness and Hindu people of lower caste. Many Muslim Indians, Christians and non-Brahmins and in fact the fairest Indians are often not as racist as the many millions of browner skinned Indians that have for a long time thought they were better than blacks. Partly because of their own racist history which dates from the time Scythian invaders came into Central Asia and Iran and started taking advantage of the darker “races” and partly because of the Zanj (blacks from Africa) that were brought into their country during the late islamic era as mercenary slaves or servants.
In an earlier statement I meant to say Sanskrit probably originated less 3,500 years ago around the time of the Kingdom of Mitanni who were probably the earliest Med or Medes and descendants of the Hyksos, Ad da’a or Ad Dahaka (so called desendants of Zohak) and other Arabian people.
It is also interesting that Dr. makes mention of Kamarnadu as being somewhere between East Africa and India in the Indian Ocean. The Kamar or Qamar a group of the Mahra a tall and dark brown population who live in both Oman, Hadramaut and east Africa are probably connected since they are said to have settled the Komoros Islands. The Mahra, Ad and Amlukh (Meluchhas?) are also closely connected peoples in Arabian history and genealogy. The word Kamar is said to mean moon.
@ Dana……Genetically, Obama is as much white as he is black. However he grew up with his white mother´s family and therefore he is not a good example.
Nisha, go look at Obama´s brother in Kenya.
No – in fact Khush i think we should take a close look at who built and in fact designed the White House and much of Washington, D.C. Let me tell you a story about Benjamin Banneker and other African Washingtonians sometime since obviously the Europeans who birthed half of your ancestors aren’t saying anything to you about it.
I guess obama is like you then, Khush. Maybe Nisha should visit Mumbai and Delhi while she’s at it. What’s she going to see different?
Hey Dana…I invite u to come over to South Africa and check out the great African architects and builders. BTW, I think Obama is great, but he is no African American. Best thing Africa did for him, was when his dad walked out on him.
Hindus didn’t build great Zimbabwe – who cares what people did under European colonialism. And why is it the skeletons of pyramids and ziggurats in ancient Mesopotamia and Mexico always seem associated with big Negroid blacks. As far as i can see blacks are the reason THERE IS ARCHTECTURE. Early indus valley civilization, pre-dynastic Egyptians, and the nubians were also the same popoulations. Just because people in India have since mixed with Iranic and Scythic peoples in the last 2,500 years doesn’t make them better than Bantu Africans. lol!
And the best thing Africa did for your Khalsa family was to succour your slave Indian grandfather and provide him with a new future for his butt naked and poverty ridden black Indian arse.
Jahdey
I am 100% South African Jahdey.
But I sure am glad my poor grandfather had the sense and pioneering spirit to leave Hindustan to settle in the Republic and help develop this beautiful country. No regrets here, cos I love South Africa and Africa. Just wish you Africanists would develop a love for your own covenant lands and stop this infatuation with continent Africa…….its not yours and never was.
Khalsa begs:
“I am 100% South African Jahdey”
Jahdey roars:
“Nooo Khalsa you are not a South African. You are some fool from Northern Pakistan and we are gonna run you back there eventually because you are an ungrateful wretch!”
Khalsa squeaks:
“…Just wish you Africanists would develop a love for your own covenant lands …”
Jahdey roars:
“The fact you recognize that I am Africanist renders the other parts of your statement illogical and incoherent…Africanist means those who love Africa!”
Khalsa babbles:
“stop this infatuation with continent Africa…….its not yours and never was…”
Jahdey roars:
“I do not know what you intend to state by that unintelligible babble..but know that I love Africa! If you meant India sub-continent I only have one word for you, just like you falsely claim a south African national identity today while hating on Africans though you know Africans own Africa; so you claim Indian ethinic origins, hating on Afro-Indians eventhough you fully realize that Afro-Indians are the true Indigines of the land. You are from the stock of nomadic thieves who consume and swallow what is not theirs.
Take your black Indian arse off the lands of South Africa before the fires of Shaka will consume your evil corpse!”
Jahdey……its not as if I hav’nt realised this already, but your understanding of English is about as muddled as your grasp of human genetics.
Before I give you an English lesson, just to remind you that unless you were born in Africa, you cannot call yourself African.
Your so-called love of Africa (which is really an infatuation), like any afrocentric retard, is based on the drivel you interpret in books and watch on national geographic.
Definitions:
1. Africanist: a specialist in African affairs, cultures, or languages.
2. Infatuation: an intense but short-lived and irrational passion for something.
3. Northern Pakistan: full of Pakis and Pashtus….no Hindhus.
BTW…..My taxes and businesses support many of the descendants of Shaka who will go very hungry if I am driven back to the Panjab. Take a look at Shaka’s Nguni cousins in Rhhodesia and then you will beg me to stay in South Africa.
But at least we now all understand that neither do you have a place among the pashtuns, nor among the Hindus nor the Zulus.
You Khalsa are a hunger clown playing a racist. But your types don’t make me lose sleep cause we know where to send nomadic rootless gutter types like you.
Parasiting on Africans and still having the gall to vituperate fake racism. Oreos like you are truly disgusting.
Take your rasclaat arse away to Tajikstan your original homeland! Take it nooow before the fire of Shaka burn up your little stinking black hindoos arse.
Fake Indian!
I am an Afro-American, black or whatever they decide to call me. I have Native American and Irish ancestry and am proud of my HUMAN ancestry. Yes, Afro centrism sucks but the facts are still there. We all have a common ancestry that leads to Africa anyway. I have traced the Biblical empires of the Bible and have discovered that the first city builders were descendants of Ham. Now that is nothing to be proud of because with sophistication comes corruption, greed etc. I am learning Hindi, and it is great. I don’t care where it originates, Bollywood shames Hollywood. Indian history is awesome. You should also discover the true African history, and African-American history. What they did under hardship was so awesome. What the heck is wrong with them now?
Wake up and smell the truth! Wherever the impiralists went, they caused divisions among the native people (divide and conquer). In Hollywood, Bollywood and Latin cinema you can see the evidence of their evil mindgame. Causing blacks, all of them from Hidustan to Australia to loathe and abhor their beautiful chocolate skin. And yes, they consider all of us brownies black! So stop fighting with words, lift each other up and rule the world again! By the way they hate the African the most, so what does that tell you? They are most threatened by the Black African. There is a reason they cover up the true history of Africa. Please read the destruction of Black Civilization by Dr. Chancellor Willams. By the way, I am not Afro-centic. I have been the victim of it because I am of mixed race and am “less pure”, but I believe we should all study the true histories through the eyes of our own people and not the pen of the white man. I am not saying this in a racist way, but just to bring the point home. Nothing sucks more than seeing people of color argue over color. Never mind Africa, African American accomplishments alone is enough to give pride to the entire African race. For example, just one person, a chemist by the name of percey revolutionized the field of alchemy by himself, during America’s jim crow era. The state of Washington became a state because of a black man. It was a Canadian territory. Blacks were not allowed to homestead in America so, George Washington the black pioneer built some towns in Canada. Ironically, that gave the United States claim to Canadian territory. So they annexed it and named it in Honor of George Washington the white guy and put his face on the state flag. But you won’t find this fact in an ordinary whitewashed history book. So I can understand why some blacks give in to Africanising everything. It is because their history has been stolen, left out and ignored. Lets remember the real reason blacks became slaves. It was because they were strong, not weak. America had all that free labor for almost 3 centuries, no wonder she became an economic superpower since the very begining. The slaves built the United States. And now a black man gets to sit in the white house built by blacks. The United states is the 3rd or 4th largest country in the world depending on who’s map you look at. Now much of its territory was gained with the help of Blacks and Native Americans. Its railroads where built by the Chinese and immigrants past and present helped it to become what it is today. But in a thousand years they will argue over who built the USA. Some will say it was obviously a colony of Mexico. Others will say that it was a common wealth of Kenya. Sadly, the Native American probably wouldn’t even be mentioned. This is what’s going on with India right now. And India was the superpower in everyway in its glorious past.
Richard Anderson…….I believe that in the USA, if you are mixed race, then you are black. I hope that ends your confusion. You can go ahead and feel more Afrocentric now.
Also, I think you watch too much of cinema. Most self-respecting Hindus cant stand Bollywood, so dont go around sounding pro-Hindu and disrespect your own country. Just remember if you were living in Hindustan, you would be facing more discrimination than your Afrocentric mind could imagine.
Finally, you are an American of negroid descent…….not an Afrrican.
You have to be born and bred in Africa to be African.
Everybody knows in India African-looking people face much discrimination! All you have to do is look at the way many upper caste and wannabe uppercaste East Indians are in the U.S. You sound proud of that.
My Indian friends of the “harijan” class claim Indians are in fact “the most racist people on earth”. They are very much discriminated against over here in the U.S. by other indians. Why would any civilized person or group be proud of that. You in the 21st century don’t even know how to treat your own people or respect yourself . indian stores and advertisements are filled with advertisements and products for lightening skin. Really that should give rise to a lot of nausea in any “self-respecting” person. Reminds me of a slave trying to be like his master.
As someone whose father and aunts and uncles claim to have had some ancestors from northwest India that were indentured people in South Africa before having been drug to plantation America I find your attitude repulsive and despicable. I guess the British or Dutch masters taught some Indians well.
Oh please spare us the pain of reading your garbled nonsense you silly black Indian ass that calls himself Khalsa.
You are waay too off-balance to define who is African or American. You better take your self-hating black Indian arse and go finish your menial duties for your so-called white controllers before you get whipped again.
@ Jahdey – If you watch the movie “Blood Diamond” u will see that people of all races are Africans and are passionate about that continent. Just like how u find all races in Europe and Asia who dont assign an ethnic identity to ones place of birth. The US is actually the perfect example of being such a melting pot of cultures.
@ R. Anderson – Khalsa has a point. In America we have the one drop rule…..if you have one drop of Black blood, then u are considered black or colord. That is why I affirm that Obama is not African and neither African-American. He is colord.
I have many mullato friends who would be quite offended to be called black (although I dont understand their reasons, I accept their views).
White People,what are they ,who is white , an one drop not free white people is an ancient caste status term ,which applies to status an not to complexion of skin,being a universal law phrase.refer to an good LAW DICTIONARY,WHICH DEFINES ANCIENT AND MODERN TERMS OF JURISPRUDENCE.THE FOLLOWING IS A EXCEPT OF HENRY CAMBELL BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY FOURTH EDITION.
FREE WHITE PERSONS:”free white persons”referred to as in naturalization act as amended by ACT JULY 14 1870,HAS MEANING NATURALLY GIVEN TO IT when first used in stat .103,c3,meaning all persons belonging to the european races then commonly counted as white and their descendants in other countries to which they have emigrated :free white persons includes all European Jews ,more or les intermixed with peoples of Celtic ,Scandinavian ,Teutonic,Iberian,Latin,Greek and Slavic,descent,it includes Magyars,Lapps,Finns,and the Basques and Albanians .It includes the mixed latin ,celtic iberian.and Moorish inhabitants of Spain and Portugal,the mixed Greek, Latin,Phoenician,,and North African INHABITANTS OF SICILY,and the mixed Slav an Tarter inhabitants of South Russia…………………………………Free White People does not mean caucasion race aryan race ,or INDO EUROPEAN RACES NO THE MIXED INDO- EUROPEAN, DRAVIDIAN,SEMETIC,AND MONGOLIAN PEOPLES WHI INHABIT PERSIA .a syrian of asaitic borth an descent wiill not be entitled to become a natUralized citizen of the united states as being a ffree white person nor a native born filipino,nor a native of INDIA WHO BELONGED TO THE HINDU RACE .KHARATI RAM SAMRAS VS.UNTIED STATES,C.C.A..Cal,125f.2nd879,881,,,that knowledge from ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nobledrew ali ,,given to me by ,taj tarik bey ,,an nature el bey ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the phrase white people is of a social power caste system having to do nothing with skin complexion .the white people social rank phrase was usurpinly adopted by the whiggamore party in philAdelphia pennsylvania an feverently propogated for acceptance during the years 1854 to 1863 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the comments are agentized by agents speaking from illusionary false platforms.once i get you arguing any color you will be crushed along with your chromosomes .take down our victory flag ,you have been defeated by your own words talking like a one drop fool .an the only one that need to be dropped are you from the world spy market that you have been agents for which is why they set you up in places you can call people black on their own land an talk about africa is not their land, IF its not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who took it ,,akebulan is their land an in 204 a.d africa was born FROM ROMAN GENERAL BEATING HANNIBLE WITH SELLOUT NUMIDIANS an land began to be taken.you live in south africa whith is south akebulnan with your south added in.you do not know what your talking about an what you have here in one drop FROM THE GHOST CASPER THE ILLUSIONARY MASTER ,THIS ONE EVEN TELLS YOU YOU CANT BE WHIITE , MEANING YOU CANNT OWN YOUR OWN LAND WITH A BRAND LIKE INDIAN SOMEBODY OWNS YOU ,,,THE INDIANS IN THIS AND ARE MUURSAS ARE THE NORTH ASATIC ONES BUT OH HOW THEY FORGOT WHO WAS CALLED MUUR FIRST BY CREATING RACE AN COLLECTIVELY RUNNING US,,,,,,, THE TEACHERS TO THE BACK OF THE CLASS .YOU ARE NOT AN AUTHORITY ON RACE EXCEPT THAT YOU ARE RULED BY THE RACE YOU CREATED AN THE HATE THAT HATE CREATED……………………………………..ALWAYS NOBLE terrell ali bey ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,brothe jah dey put this in for me cause i been mysteriously blocked out of commenting on rasta live wire or i would fire back right away , since they sought to keep me out of the mix an edit my comments from rasta livewire to their blogs i have no other choice but to now drop total an complete bombs since i am pushed off the front line by hackers. this is why you have not heard from me cause brither jah has to post all i say but that’s ok cause we will not give the last drop word to the word of the tird , if you not free white sovereign then you cant speak on drops ,stops plops crops ,nothing ,the aLBIONS HERE ARE SLAVES IN PROPER PERSON AFTER CIVIL WAR ,,ASK THEM ,AN REAL NOBILTY IS HIDDEN BY CLASS AN HELD HOSTAGE WITH THE ILLUSION OF SKIN COLOR JUST LIKE THE DISRESPECT TO THE ORIGINAL DALIT FROM HINDUSTAN.ARYAN VEDICS ARE ILLUMINISTIC RATS IN THE SWISS PERPETRATING FRAUDS OF THE HIEROGLYPH
I love this to the max. Just who this Khalsa guy thinks he really is? He can’t seem to get this “honorary white” shit out of his biggotted skull. South Africa will never return to that white dominated era. Besides, The true South Africans don’t need your cookies period. So, don’t be sorry for them and remain in South Africa, if you don’t like how South Africa is being led at the moment despite the challenges pack your belonings and depart. You honorary white.
I only dropped in looking for the root of nagas after playing wow but… jeeze. Look its pretty obvious this khalsa guy is a troll, a bigotted one at that, and you should all know by now not to feed trolls… they follow you home. All this is interesting but being 24 and of african american origin it seems pointless to flame war over the minutiae of history that no one here was alive to witness, and is obviously colored by the conflicts of nations and grinding tensions of the as of yet immature human race. If we want a history to be proud of there is no time like the present to build it.
Well, Tamils and the Dravidians are black as hair on any Indian’s head. Tamils don’t have a country of their own, not even Tamil Nadu, which is supposed to be the Land of Tamils. Tamils are racist – one cannot be the CM of Tamil Nadu, if he/she is not “pure” Tamil.
Indians are racist too, maybe the most racist of any kind of people, anywhere in the world. They are sophisticated racists. If you go to Canada, you’d notice how racist these Indians are! If you come to India, and even if you are a Black-American, you would be looked down. Not even the so-called whites are considered pure!
Strangely, this “mighty” India is run by a white woman today, who pulls the strings from her home. She is an Italian…Lovely, don’t you think?
nagas are an ethinic group from nepal . they didnt capture villavar and meenavars who are actually chera and pandyas . original nagas were rather mongoloid looking people . The haplogroup present in today’s descendants of nagas are R1a1,C5 and Q1a3
EXTRAORDINARY……………………………..
Indians came from Ethiopians. Elam, who was the son of Shem settled in Southwestern Iran & India. He was dark like the Tamils
Aram, who was the son of Shem was the First King of Abyssinia/Habashan/Ethiopia.
They also Migrated to India, which is why people from the two countries look very similar.
These two Semetic groups mixed, & you can see the features of both groups in India today.
Personally professor I believe the South African that disagreed with you was a white South African not a black one. Personally your insight is very interesting to the extent in which Ethiopians entered India. Also white South Africans are known for racism please consider the apartheid system I think you reacted to fast suggesting that he was black. He was obviously white.
Also Dr. Winters keep up the good work in studying African movements around the world. Most people in this country do not know these things black or white. I think what you are doing is very important and amazing. As an African American I am very proud of what you just discussed. I believe the people who are reacting negatively to you do not know what you just explained is beneficial to improving knowledge in world history. Please continue what you are doing and spread the knowledge. Forget these racist idiots they never entered a college in there life lol. The Indian Sanskrit script has African origins I had no idea and I’m a history minor Amazing work Dr. Winters
Phylogeographic analyses suggest that a large component of the present Khoisan gene pool is eastern African in origin and that Asia was the source of a back migration to sub-Saharan Africa. Haplogroup IX Y chromosomes appear to have been involved in such a migration, the traces of which can now be observed mostly in northern Cameroon.
Excerpt taken from:
Am J Hum Genet. 2002 May;70(5):1197-214. Epub 2002 Mar 21.
A back migration from Asia to sub-Saharan Africa is supported by high-resolution analysis of human Y-chromosome haplotypes.
Cruciani F, Santolamazza P, Shen P, Macaulay V, Moral P, Olckers A, Modiano D, Holmes S, Destro-Bisol G, Coia V, Wallace DC, Oefner PJ, Torroni A, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Scozzari R, Underhill PA.
SourceDipartimenti di Genetica e Biologia Molecolare, Università La Sapienza, Rome, Italy. fulvio.cruciani@uniroma1.it
Can anyone tell me what the heck this means in terms of what it’s saying in relation to: “Asia was the source of a back migration to sub-Saharan Africa”. This kind of talk is always so confusing especially when the excerpt taken from the study mentions that a large component of Khoisian gene pool is East African in origin and that Asia was the source of a back migration. Was there a back migration from Asia into sub-Saharan Africa or is this assumed because of the diversity found there? Could it be said the other way around that rather than a back migration occuring the original pioneers left the continent and never looked back? There is a stricking similarity between South African Tribes and Asians. ‘Africa’ as it’s commonly referred to gave birth to the whole human family and therefore has offered much more than it will ever be given credit for.
I believe it is possible that some of the some of the peoples that look like the San in AFrica and certain Munda speakers of India came from Africa however some of them appear closely related to the Neolithic peoples of the painted pottery culture of Asia and Eurasia. They may have had some link to early small gracile neolithic peoples as found among Badarians, certain Saharans and certain neolithic Europeans. The Haratin or Teda Kareda and some of the Beja also have a strong Khoisan appearance.
However, I don’t think however this is the migration they are talking about that came back into Africa. One people that definitely may have come back were likely of Arabian or Afro-Arabian stock and of the Ubaid stock that had probably in Mesopotamia Anatolia and Syria since the Mesolithic and may have had some connection to the robust Natufian peoples (judging from certain cultural traits).
Just a reminder I posted a comment and received a reply from Dingane Walker. I responded with a return reply and in turn am awaiting your return reply or a reply from anyone for that matter who has anything to add or wishes to address the above comment from Desertman. (Please see DesertMan above)
Thanks.
“I believe it is possible that some of the some of the peoples that look like the San in AFrica and certain Munda speakers of India came from Africa however some of them appear closely related to the Neolithic peoples of the painted pottery culture of Asia and Eurasia.”
DesertMan:
I was noticing the striking resemblence of Southern African tribes to Oriental Asia in general and noting that these very well could have derived from these tribes.
Regarding Back migrations:
The study doesn’t seem to distinguish between East African DNA and a back migration to Africa from Asia. Could this mean that what is distinguishable is the influence of Asian pottery? Do you believe they are talking about ancient migrations or are these more recent migrations?
1. present Khoisan gene pool IS EASTERN AFRICAN in origin
2. and that ASIA was the SOURCE of a BACK MIGRATION to sub-Saharan Africa.
My question is how do these two comments tie together? 1. says “large component of present Khoisan gene pool is Eastern African” while 2. says “Asia was the source of a back migration”. Is the study tieing the “large component of present Khoisan gene pool” to Asia being the source? If so then it would seem that what is being stated is that the gene pool although East African was present in Asia and migrated back to Africa and that what the migration was detected through a similarity with Asian pottery? Am i interpreting this correctly? and do you have any Neolithic links you could direct me to?
By the way, I find your replys throughout thouroughly thought out. Thank you. Very nice to have across you.
I think when they say this it most often refers to the movement of neolithic Afro-Asiatic speakers, not Khoisan or San peoples. However, there would be no inconsistency in saying that their was a movement of ancestors of the latter back into east Africa at some proto-historic point in time, while at the same time being related to East Africans.
O.K. what they’re saying is that a large component of the Khoisan gene pool went from East to South and that Asia…again, so what about Asia? How does this tie in to the statement of the first sentence? Khoisan gene pool from East to South? So the gene pool went from East to South. What does this have to do with Asia? Isn’t the study relating the Khoisan gene pool to the Asian back migration in this statement although in the same statement it says the Khoisan gene pool is East African: “Phylogeographic analyses suggest that a large component of the present Khoisan gene pool is eastern African in origin and that Asia was the source of a back migration to sub-Saharan Africa. Haplogroup IX Y chromosomes appear to have been involved in such a migration, the traces of which can now be observed mostly in northern Cameroon.” In particular the first three lines.
And if the gene pool is largely East African is there any information that would support an Asian back migration that is being proposed? What would this be based on (I guess is my question) since in the same statement it talks of the Khoisan people and their gene pool being Eastern African. What would this have to do with an Asian back migration? Since it seems that that’s what’s being stated.
I guess I should be focusing my attention to Haplogroup IX Y Chromosomes. This probably would tell me the timeline they’re refering to.
Do you have any Neolithic Links?
Where do you think Indian people come from? Indians wouldn’t even Exist without Ethiopia!
The Elamites, along with other Semitic people from Arabia, as well as the Abyssinian’s/Ethiopians Established & populated the Nation of India From the Beginning!
Thank you for your answer. Since you’re pointing this out, I’m not all that familiar with who the Elamites and others like the Abyssinian’s are and who they’re affliliated with although I’m certain it’s as you say. I assume by your opening statement they are all members of the larger Ethiopic family as well as a large portion of other Semetic people from Arabia. My question however was if a large back migration from Asia into sub-Saharan Africa was the source of a large part of the gene pool found there. If what you’re saying by your answer is that yes there was a back migration from Asia into sub-Saharan Africa but being one in the same as members of the Ethiopic family it would have little impact if any at all since Ethiopia populated much of that region if not all, then I see your point…please clarify. But otherwise, what is your take on the statement: ‘Phylogeographic analyses suggest that a large component of the present Khoisan gene pool is eastern African in origin and that ASIA WAS THE SOURCE of a back migration to sub-Saharan Africa.’ Wait wait Hold on, before I go on, I think I’m getting hung up on PHYLOGEOGRAPHIC, which simply would make reference to classifying observed geographic associations similarities which in this case would only support your statement…again please clarify if this is the statement you’re making.
Thanks.
Just a reminder I posted a comment and received a reply from Dingane Walker. I responded with a return reply and in turn am awaiting your return reply or a reply from anyone for that matter who has anything to add or wishes to address the above comment from Desertman. (Please see DesertMan above)
Thanks.
Kalsa
Engish is not God’s Language.
The Chinese president doesn’t speak english. neither do most chinese.
Kalsa just becoz you are born in Africa does not make you African. You are an Indian and practice hindu culture. So you cannot be African.
Kalsa the stuff here makes National geographic look like mickey Mouse. In fact National Geographic may not want people in the west to know about the Truth.
Kalsa knowing what most of you guys do. I doubt whether you actually pay your taxes. I really doubt. Secondly you got those businesses with the opression of Black /Nguni people in SA. You were a second class white during aparthied.
Are proud of that?
Now Most of you are masquerading as Blacks.
When the young Lions Malema and Jimmy Manyi mention these facts you all run to the white media saying they – Malemas are racist for reminding you that. you gat a head start.
Kalsa I know of some SA white people who have been stealing minerals from Zimbabwe.
Including some big companies smuggling and underdeclaring.
MUGABE caught them. (Chimurenga Phase 4)
Chimurenga will eventually come knocking on your door. I dont know what the workers you oppress will call it in Zulu.
Its your kind of UN-Afrikan arrogance that makes Afrikans like Idi Amin show you the door back to India.
My mans Khalsa – you and the boers and the afrikaners fully well know for blacks this is history (prophecy ) being fulfilled be it negative /positive we are theonly people to see history and walk into it. It is only a cycle of time whereas you are only a prop onstage, something has to capture the little things. The world is the stage and black peoples(your brahma,shiva , and krishna ) are the producers,writers ,and directors. LIGHTS ,CAMERAS ,aaaand ACTION !!!
@ Muwanga.
As a black person u should be ashamed of yourself for insulting a proud South African. It is us real South Africans who have put Africa on the map and are the only beacon of light, intelligence and civilization on this continent. So called blacks (Congoloids) have let this continent down. Chimps like Julius Malema and Mugabe are examples of the type of leadership this continent produces in the 21st century.
Will the real South Africans arise and save the continent again?
I have replied to your childish commentary above – Your Desiness. From a black ( and satisfied with it) in America.