Ethiopian Greek
Edited By Jide Uwechia from cited Sources
The Benin Haplogroup or Haplogroup 19 Common in Africans, southern Greeks, Sicilians, and Albanians
There are at least four distinct African, (known as Senegal, Congo, Benin, Bantu Hbs Haplogroups) and one Asian chromosomal backgrounds (haplotypes) on which the sickle cell mutation has arisen.
The Benin haplotype (which originates from Nigeria, West Africa) accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, and South West Saudi Arabia, suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations. Per:Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, The Geography Of Sickle Cell Disease:Opportunities For Understanding Its DiversityRSITY: http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/143/rev9239.html
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Nigeria, west Africa appears the most logical origin of the sickle mutation in Greece evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms (1991). It has been conclusively demonstrated that HbS in Greece is mostly haplotype #19 (the one that originated in Benin, Nigeria West Africa). See, Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas P.; The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Unit for Prenatal Diagnosis, Laikon Hospital, Athens, Greece.
Additionally, previous data suggest that the S/Bantu haplotype (from Southern Africa) is heterogeneous at the molecular level. Recent studies also report a similar heterogenity for the Benin Haplogroup. A study demonstrated the presence of the A -499 TA variation in sickle cell anemia chromosomes of Sicilian and North African origin bearing the S/Benin haplotype (from Nigeria). Being absent from North American S/Benin chromosomes, which were studied previously, this variation is indicative for the molecular heterogeneity of the S/Benin haplotype. Am. J. Hematol. 80:79-80, 2005.
A study was done in Albania (which borders Greece) relating to sickle cell anemia, sickle cell beta-thalassemia, and thalassemia major in Albania. The focus of the study was the characterization of sickle cell mutations. As one would expect, it was shown that the HbS mutation in the Albanian sample is the Benin (Nigeria)-originating haplotype #19. See, Boletini E, Svobodova M, Divoky V, Baysal E, Dimovski AJ, Liang R, Adekile AD, Huisman TH.; Sickle cell anemia, sickle cell beta-thalassemia, and thalassemia major in Albania: characterization of mutations. : Hum Genet. 1994 Feb;93(2):182-7.
According to a study done in 1973, before the availablity of the advanced data cited above, “the occurrence of the sickle-cell trait in southern Europe …. is believed to reflect gene flow from the Middle East.” See A. P. GELPI, M.D, “Migrant Populations and the Diffusion of the Sickle-Cell Gene” August 1, 1973 vol. 79 no. 2 258-264 http://www.annals.org/content/79/2/258.abstract.
The problem with this 1973 study is that it assumes that the sickle cell genes came with the Arabs. Alas, updated research work has proven beyond doubt that the sickle cell genes proven to exist in southern Europe are exclusively Sickle cell gene Haplotype 19 or the Benin Sickle cell gene from Nigeria.
Y Haplogroup E-M78 and YAP In Black Africans and Greeks
Y Haplogroup E-M78 a derivative of E3B is a signature African gene as confirmed in research studies over the last few years. The high frequency of this haplogroup in Greece suggests the presence of a substantive African population in that region during prehistoric and historical time periods.
A recent paper has detected clades of haplogroups J and E3b that were likely not part of pre-historic migrations into Europe, but rather spread by later historical movements. Greeks ….. [then there is] the marker J-M267, which may reflect more recent Middle Eastern admixture.â€
(Semino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2004) E3b originates from East Africa while there is a high frequency of J-M267 in the East Coast of Africa as well as the Red sea coast of Arabia.
A recent sampling of the Greek population comprised 36 Peloponnesian samples, 5 of which were J-M172(xM12) and 17 of which were E-M78 (R.K., unpublished data).
In spite of the small Peloponnesian sample size, the high E-M78 frequency (47%) observed here is consistent with that (44%) independently found in the same region (Di Giacomo et al. 2003) for the YAP chromosomes harboring microsatellite haplotypes A. (Novelletto, personal communication) (Cruciani et al. 2004).
The study by by Di Giacomo et al. found the following African haplogroups in Greeks: Haplogroup A which is highly specific to West Africa, R1a, DE, and J2*(xDYS413= 18)J*(xJ2). R1* which probably gave rise to R1a is found in Northern Cameroon. DE is found principally among Nigerians and it is suspected that it originated from Nigeria. J is very prominent in East, and North Africa.
High-resolution Y-chromosome haplotyping and particular microsatellite associations reveal … an East Africa homeland for E-M78.Origin. See Ornella Semino, Chiara Magri, et al “Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory Events in the Mediterranean Area” http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15069642
HLA Genetic Relationship Between Ancient Greeks and Black Africans
HLA genes are reliable markers of past population movement and are still used in laboratories today to establish genetic inter-relationship amongst seemingly diverse peoples.
HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks (2001) was a study conducted by Dr. Arniaz and other scholars in a top flying Spanish University. This study uses HLA genes to establish the African dimension of the roots of ancient Greece.
According to the Arniaz study, …..Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt. See Arnaiz-Villena A,et.al: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks. Tissue Antigens. 2001 Feb;57(2):118-27
There is a fraudulent claim (by those with idealogical investments in the topic) on the Internet that this study has been “retracted” or “refuted.” The study is perfectly valid. Sub-Saharan-specific and quasi-sub-Saharan-specific alleles were definitely detected in the Greek population at the DRB1 locus, and this is not open to question.
It would be helpful here to discuss the study that was retracted, and the reason why. It is the work titled: “The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations” (which contained some cross-referenced Greek data in a neighbor-joining dendogram and a correspondence analysis) that was retracted. And it was retracted solely and strictly for political reasons, as this Observer article makes crystal clear:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4307083,00.html
(Keep in mind we are dealing with the study on the relatedness of Jews and Palestinians at the moment, which was retracted, and not the one on the Greek-Black African relatedness, which was not retracted and remains valid. The two must not be confused.)
Appreciations to: http://onedroprule.org/about1071.html
Epilogue:
“Hb S is common in some areas of the Mediterranean basin, including regions of Italy, Greece, Albania and Turkey (Boletini et al., 1994) (Schiliro et al., 1990). Haplotype analysis shows that the Hb S in these areas originated in Africa. The genes probably moved along ancient trading routes between wealthy kingdoms in western Africa and the trade centers in the Mediterranean basin.” (Harvard University, http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/scdmanage.html)
“Usually, people with sickle cell disease outside Africa (e.g., blacks in the United States) or India have mixed haplotypes for their sickle cell genes.” (Harvard University, http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/scdmanage.html)
“Templeton gives a modern-day analogy: the presence of a gene for sickle cell anemia in Caucasians in Portugal. The gene traces back to a mutation that occurred in Africa and spread through interbreeding between Africans and Europeans. “The Africans didn’t come up, reconquer the Iberian peninsula, kill off all the Europeans, and that’s why there are sickle cell alleles in Portugal today,” he says. The presence of the sickle cell gene in Portugal “means that Portuguese and Africans have met and they’ve interbred, just like humans tend to do.” – “Out of Africa” – Ruth Flanagan, Contributing Editor, Earth Magazine, http://www2.mc.maricopa.edu/anthro/l…ofAfrica5.html
Finally.. have you not claimed to have cited Graham’s paper.. you have so why do you continue to distort its context?
“Studies of the structure of DNA surrounding the beta globin locus reveal that the sickle cell gene is associated with several DNA structures probably representing different ancestral populations. The most likely interpretation is that the sickle cell mutation is a relatively recent occurrence that has occurred independently in several different populations. Falciparum malaria then acted as a selective factor, increasing the prevalence of the gene because people inheriting the sickle cell gene from one parent and a gene for normal adult hemoglobin from the other parent (sickle cell trait) were less likely to die from malaria and so more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Over the generations, the sickle cell trait has therefore reached high frequencies in malarious areas. The factor in common to the distribution of the sickle cell gene is therefore malaria and not African ancestry.”
PS: still waiting for the responces.. if you only like demanding a responce yet dread to provide one, tell me so I’ll know that all I’m up against is your inferiority complex.
The Ignorant dog continues to blatter:
“DE, while you question my finding its origin indifferent, you stress the origin issue yet clearly avoid naming a region.. could this be because you see that the limited % (which you audaciously attempt to minimize its significance) in Nigeria excludes it as this place of origin ?”
Jahdey answers:
Pathetic! Completely ignorant of genes. DE most likely originates from Nigeria or environs. I already made that clear to you. Go search the web and educate yourself. The highest incident of DE yet discovered occurs in Nigeria. In genetics we use the percentage of prevalence as an indication of origins.
The little dog continues to yelp:
“You return to HG A and claim it as an indicator.. child one individual that is as the paper states:
“a finding which is in agreement with its rare occurrence outside Africaâ€
is anything but enough to justify your claims.”
Jahdey answers:
O pathos, what else next? This idiot does not realize that genetic sampling is a sampling of individuals as statistical representatives of the percentage of likely incidence of a haplogroup.
When the paper says one person was found with A, what it means is that out of the sample group, one person was found with the gene. Thus, any statistical extrapolation made on the basis of that number must account for the size of the sample group as a whole. Thus, if the scientists sampled 10 persons and only one is found with the gene then the percentage for the entire nation would be 10%.
I knew that that one would go completely over your head as well, but then what does one expect from a lower class white trash?
Ignoramus yelps:
“As for what I actually said on the 6th and what your of limited comprehension mind has conceived, I’d suggest you take off your inferiority complex glasses and re-read it and then you’ll see who’s the real fool here, distorting not only papers which he claims to have cited but also the words of those who expose him.”
Jahdey answers:
What you said on Dec 6th 2007 was clear to the world. Don”t even attempt to backtrack! You declared that Nigerians and Greeks had no blood connect and that we were fantasizing. Now we see who has the racist fantasies. Who is looking like an idiotic hog, who is?
Ignoramus finally whimpers:
“Finally.. have you not claimed to have cited Graham’s paper.. you have so why do you continue to distort its context?”
Jahdey replies:
Graham clearly stated in his paper that the origin of the HBS in Greeks, Italians, Turks etc is from Nigeria. Your little twisted racist mind cannot comprehend this. Why? Are you in denial?
According to Graham’s unedited quotation (and I copied and posted virtually the entire article for your little dog mind to read earlier):
“The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily,4 Northern Greece,10 Southern Turkey,11 and South West Saudi Arabia,6,7 suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations.”
Indisputably, ancient Greeks had genetic connection with Nigerians. Many citizens of the Greek city states originated from Nigeria.
Now, where did you say your ancestors were from again, o barbarian? Who is looking like a racist liar..and a fool, and a distorter of scientific articles???
If ancient Greeks did not carry genes from Africa, show us that they are exclusively connected with your ancestors from the Steppes. But, if ancient Greeks did carry African genes as demonstrated by all the genetic research papers that I cited, then hush your stink and go develop your ignorant mind with more studies so you don”t make such a fool of yourself next time.
Fools die from want of wisdom!
Your Teacher and Master
Jahdey
Copm ‘on inferiority complexed fool, stop deleting my posts and contradict the fact that :
a) Haplogroup DE, is found in LIMITED % in male populations of Nigeria which proves your claim to be another malicious distortion and that its a LATER MUTATION introduced INTO the regions’ population.
b) cite a single paper which has also noted the existance of HG A other than that of Di Giacomo
c) prove that Graham’s paper links the distribution of Sickle Cell to ancestry and not to malaria.
d) the celebration of your rediculous claims of populations from Nigeria existing in the Hellenic polis.
In short prove that you do not distort the papers you claim to cite in a celebration of your inferiority complex and that the title “master” which you’ve rediculously given to your self nothing but a remnant of your resentment of your true history….
Ignoramus yelps: “a) Haplogroup DE, is found in LIMITED % in male populations of Nigeria which proves your claim to be another malicious distortion and that its a LATER MUTATION introduced INTO the regions’ population.”
Real Scientists Answer:
“…DE molecular ancestors first evolved inside Africa and subsequently contributed as Y chromosome founders to pioneering migrations….” See Peter A. Underhill , Toomas Kivisild, “Use of Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Population Structure in Tracing Human Migrations,” Annual Review of Genetics, Vol. 41: 539-564 (Volume publication date December 2007)
Additionally, Michael E. Weale et al in “Rare Deep-Rooting Y Chromosome lineages in Humans: Lessons for Phylogeography, genetics 165: 229-234 (September 2003) demonstrate the original connection between Nigeria and Haplogroup DE.
Ignoramus yaps: “b) cite a single paper which has also noted the existance of HG A other than that of Di Giacomo”
Real scientists answer:
For more information on the African origin of Haplogroup A see the following article on BBC world News @
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6293333.stm
Ignoramus begs: “c) prove that Graham’s paper links the distribution of Sickle Cell to ancestry and not to malaria.”
Real scientist answer:
According to Dr. Graham Segearnt:
“The Senegal haplotype occurs on the Atlantic coast of West Africa, the Benin haplotype in central West Africa, especially Ghana, Nigeria, and Côte d’Ivoire, and the Bantu or Central African Republic haplotype in Zaire, the Central African Republic, Angola and Kenya…”
“From these original foci of the HbS mutation, the gene spread along trading routes to North Africa and the Mediterranean, was transported in large populations to North and South America and the Caribbean”
“The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily, Northern Greece, Southern Turkey … suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa.
See Dr. Graham Segearnt’s article above.
See also for more reading:
Ragusa A, Lombardo M, Sortino G, et al. ßs gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: implications for gene flow. Am J Hematol 1988;27:139-41.
El-Hazmi MAF. Beta globin gene haplotypes in the Saudi sickle cell anemia patients. Human Heredity 1990;40:177-86.
Padmos MA, Roberts GT, Sackey K, et al. Two different forms of homozygous sickle cell disease occur in Saudi Arabia. Br J Haematology 1991;79:93-8.
Zago MA, Figueiredo MS, Ogo SH. Bantu Hbs cluster haplotype predominates among Brazilian Blacks. Am J Phys Anthropol 1992;88:295-8.
Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas Ph. The origin of the sickle cell mutation in Greece: evidence from Hbs globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Hemoglobins 1991;15:459-67.
PS: Your time is up Ignoramus. We have given you many chances to say something, yet, you have not said anything new in the past eight posts of yours. You are simply repeating yourself and refusing to read. You have become a boring distraction by demonstrating your maniacal need for attention. Go away trolling fool…go play with some racist ignoramus like yourself on networks like…well you know.
Your Master
Jahdey
How Do People Get Sickle Cell Disease?
Sickle cell disease is an inherited condition. Two genes for the sickle hemoglobin must be inherited from one’s parents in order to have the disease.
How Are Genes Inherited?
At the time of conception, a person receives one set of genes from the mother (egg) and a corresponding set of genes from the father (sperm). The genes exist on structures inside cells called chromosomes. The combined effects of many genes determine some traits (hair color and height, for instance). Other characteristics are determined by one gene pair. Sickle cell disease is a condition that is determined by a single pair of genes (one from each parent).
How are Sickle Cell Genes Inherited?
A person receives the sickle cell genes or not only at the time of conception. Therefore, neither sickle cell trait nor sickle cell disease can be contracted. By the same token, people cannot lose their sickle cell genes over time. A person born with sickle cell trait (one sickle cell gene) will always have sickle cell trait. The same is true of sickle cell disease (two sickle cell genes).
…………………………………………………
http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/scd_inheritance.html
Anemia, sickle cell
Sickle cell anemia is the most common inherited blood disorder in the United States, affecting about 72,000 Americans or 1 in 500 African Americans….
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?call=bv.View..ShowSection&rid=gnd.section.98
Inheritance of Sickle cell genes
* Sickle-cell conditions are inherited from parents in much the same way as blood type, hair color and texture, eye color and other physical traits. * The types of haemoglobin a person makes in the red blood cells depend upon what haemoglobin genes the person inherits from his parents
Examples
1. If one parent has sickle-cell anaemia (“SS” in the diagram) and the other is Normal (AA), all of their children will have sickle cell trait (AS).
2. If one parent has sickle-cell anaemia (SS) and the other has Sickle Cell Trait (AS), there is a 50% chance (or 1 out of 2) of a child having sickle cell disease (SS) and a 50% chance of a child having sickle cell trait (AS).
3. When both parents have sickle cell trait (AS), they have a 25% chance (1 of 4) of a child having sickle cell disease (SS), as shown in the diagram.
Sickle-cell anemia appears to be caused by a recessive allele. Two carrier parents have a one in four chance of having a child with the disease. The child will be homozygous recessive.
………………………………..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle-cell_disease#Inheritance
How Did Many Greeks inherit sickle cell Haplogroup Hbs 19 which originates from Nigeria:
Answer: The same way that sickle cell has been proven to be transmitted. They got it from their ancestral parents who left Nigeria to settle the Mediterranean Islands.
Jahdey
PS: According to Dr. Graham Segearnt:
“The Senegal haplotype occurs on the Atlantic coast of West Africa, the Benin haplotype in central West Africa, especially Ghana, Nigeria, and Côte d’Ivoire, and the Bantu or Central African Republic haplotype in Zaire, the Central African Republic, Angola and Kenya…â€
“From these original foci of the HbS mutation, the gene spread along trading routes to North Africa and the Mediterranean, was transported in large populations to North and South America and the Caribbeanâ€
“The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily, Northern Greece, Southern Turkey … suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa.
See Dr. Graham Segearnt’s article above.
See also for more reading:
Ragusa A, Lombardo M, Sortino G, et al. ßs gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: implications for gene flow. Am J Hematol 1988;27:139-41.
El-Hazmi MAF. Beta globin gene haplotypes in the Saudi sickle cell anemia patients. Human Heredity 1990;40:177-86.
Padmos MA, Roberts GT, Sackey K, et al. Two different forms of homozygous sickle cell disease occur in Saudi Arabia. Br J Haematology 1991;79:93-8.
Zago MA, Figueiredo MS, Ogo SH. Bantu Hbs cluster haplotype predominates among Brazilian Blacks. Am J Phys Anthropol 1992;88:295-8.
Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas Ph. The origin of the sickle cell mutation in Greece: evidence from Hbs globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Hemoglobins 1991;15:459-67.
Can’t handle reality can you..
The Underhill paper seems interesting but unfortunately don’t have access to it and based on how you’ve selectively cited previous papers. I’d prefer to have my doubts untill I do actually read it.
As for Weale’s paper, why do you dread to disclose that he doesn’t reject the possibility of a back-migration event or that out of a large group, a total of some 1250 Nigerians only 5 had this HG, could it be cause you’d have to take back your claim of the “highest incident” being found in Nigeria?
Your BBC link does nothing to assist you in responding to my request of a citation of another paper which would support the widespread existance of A in Hellas.
Finally on Graham’s paper, I again ask.. exactly what don’t you understand.. is it really so hard to comprehend that in the very beginning of the paper he clarifies that its NOT an indication of ancestry?
“. OVER THE GENERATIONS, THE SICKLE CELL TRAIT HAS THEREFORE REACHED HIGH FREQUENCIES IN MALARIOUS AREAS. THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY.”
More Lessons on Genetic Science for Orphesus:
A study by Di Giacomo et al. in 2003 found the following African haplogroups in Greeks: Haplogroup A which is highly specific to West Africa, R1a, DE, and J2*(xDYS413= 18)J*(xJ2). R1* which probably gave rise to R1a is found in Northern Cameroon. DE is found principally among Nigerians and it is suspected that it originated from Nigeria. J is very prominent in East, and North Africa.
“…DE molecular ancestors first evolved inside Africa and subsequently contributed as Y chromosome founders to pioneering migrations….†See Peter A. Underhill , Toomas Kivisild, “Use of Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Population Structure in Tracing Human Migrations,†Annual Review of Genetics, Vol. 41: 539-564 (Volume publication date December 2007)
According to Weal et al.: “…Of the five DE* individuals, three had a microsatellite haplotype consisting of repeat sizes 13-13-22-11-11-13 (loci arranged in same order as listed above) while the other two had a haplotype differing by one step at DYS391 only (13-13-22-10-11-13). This high level of similarity in such a rapidly evolving system strongly suggests that these five individuals share a private common ancestor (as in Fig 2C, Fig D, or e). We note that of the three possible branching patterns, two (Fig 2C and Fig D) would imply an African origin for YAP…”
“Here we report a new very rare deep-rooting haplogroup within the YAP clade, together with data on other deep-rooting YAP clades (Fig 1). The new haplogroup, so far found only in five Nigerians, is the least derived of all YAP chromosomes according to currently known binary markers, such that application of the same phylogeographic inference method used by Hammer and colleagues (the nested cladistic method of TEMPLETON et al. 1995 Down) leads to the opposite conclusion—i.e., significant evidence for range expansion from West Africa to Asia…” (Jahdey”s comments: and Greece too where DE has been identified) See Michael E. Weale et al in “Rare Deep-Rooting Y Chromosome lineages in Humans: Lessons for Phylogeography, genetics 165: 229-234
Jahdey continues trashing Orphesus:
Orphesus chats about 1250 Nigerians and 5 Nigerians. Well, if you bothered to have looked closer you would have noticed that DE* is a rare deep-rooting Y chromosome. Orphesus the title of Michael Weals’ paper reads : “Rare Deep-Rooting Y Chromosome lineages in Humans:”
Thus so far so good, this rare haplogroup DE* which is the obvious genetic ancestor of the DE found in Greeks has been identified in Nigerians (the five tested in that study) out of the entire globe.
In any event, I would advise you to go pay for Underhill’s paper which is available online (the one you claim not to have accessed) to broaden your understanding of genetic science. It cost only $18. Do that instead of playing the pathetically ignorant troll.
Point made.
Greeks carry so many recent African genetic haplogroups that this issue has become trite and moot.
Even Orphesus has grudgingly admitted this.
Again I urge you Orphesus:
Just cite one, one peer reviewed paper that disproves the thesis of the article “The Nigerian origins of ancient Greeks”:
(a)that ancient Greeks have HBS genes from Nigeria; Haplogroup 19.
(b)that ancient Greeks also carry genetic material originating from Ethiopia;
(c)that haplogroup A, and E-M78, are absent on the Agean Islands and as such in Greeks.
If you are unable to cite one scientific paper to counter my arguments or to support your own, then you remain the illiterate that you will always be.
Jahdey
To all,
I am a Greek-American living in the United States (family originally from central Greece). Like many Greeks, I carry the Sickle Cell trait and find much of what is written on this blog to be very interesting; especially the segment that concludes that most Greeks share a common origin in West Africa (Nigeria, Ethiopia, etc).
To be honest, I’m totally okay with this conclusion as I am very proud of my Greek heritage and equally excited about knowing the origins of my people.
Best regards
Sorry but most Greek don’t share any common origins with Africans, especially those of WEST Africa. Its so sad to see people of black African origins try to distort history and the truth to fit an ideology that is false by trying to claim a Caucasian white European history and people like the Greeks.
Deva
The saddest aspect of all your trolling is that you are neither Greek nor African. You are a pink white bwoy apeing as a doorkeeper for the false HIS-storical status quo.
And all you have to say is no, noo, noooo! Because you are stricken with fear and angst at the collapse of all the lies and corruption that your mother fed you as an infant seeking the milk of knowledge.
Open up your ignorant mind and be liberated.
Jahdey
Dont try to convince Jahdey of listening to your voice. The person obviously has an inferiority complex and tries to associate any worldwide acocmplishments by different people to the black Africans. Its called “stealing other people’s glory”, or “plagiarizing other people’s achievements”. This is what these articles are doing. They are robbing other civilizations from their accomplishments due to the black inferiority complex observed by those like Jahdey. Its so sad to see this.
Muha-madder
But what about your Jecanite ancestors, you still have not confessed about their wretchedness.
Tell me oh lover of camels, where did your ancestors come from?
Jahdey
“Mohammad replied:
Dont try to convince Jahdey of listening to your voice. The person obviously has an inferiority complex and tries to associate any worldwide acocmplishments by different people to the black Africans. Its called “stealing other people’s gloryâ€, or “plagiarizing other people’s achievementsâ€. This is what these articles are doing. They are robbing other civilizations from their accomplishments due to the black inferiority complex observed by those like Jahdey. Its so sad to see this.”
You are so correct, Mohammad, its quite comical seeing people like him believing in all the nonsense he keeps writing about. Trying to turn every single ancient civilization into ‘black African’ is quite patheic really. LoL!
If any of you argue over this then you do not deserve the information you have gained.
I am Greek myself. My uncle is a famous anthropologist(Aris Poulinos) however I disagree with his claims and agree with jahdey.
My uncle believes Greeks are pure…the same as ancient times. Sorry but I do not agree. You just need to look at how diverse our race actually is to see we ARE MIXED.
Blone hair, Brown hair, black hair, Brown eyes, Green eyes, Blue eyes, straight hair, curly hair, dark skin, light skin.
A Greek could have any one of these charecteristics…sound like a pure race? NO.
Greeks DO have an African connection but Northern Europe and the Greek goverment would never let it be known.
Oh please. Greeks have no connection to Africa and they have just as much admixture as many other Europeans, including Northern Europeans have. Sorry but its not Nothern Europeans, as you so falsely claimed, that confirm Greeks have no connection to Africa BUT science and genetic. Modern studies have constructed Greek genetic trees revealing a strong degree of homogeneity between Greeks from different geographical locations. Median networks revealed that most of the Greek haplotypes are clustered of haplotypes shared among Greeks and other European and Near Eastern populations, not black Africans. Modern scholars and scientists have supported the notion that there is a racial connection to the ancient Greeks. Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi, and Alberto Piazza, have found evidence of a genetic connection between the ancient and modern Greeks.[79] These are not “Northern Europeans” as you so falsely claimed but Southern Europeans. I’m actually questioning if you are actually Greek. Giati kaveis Ellivas tha theopouse tov eafto tou sav apapi mavpo. Ti aidies Thai mou tha akousoumai pali. Apo omofeofoulous se mavpous kavouvai tov Elliviko lao. Gailio to katastima.
But Dave even Northern Europeans have historical and pre-historical African genetic admixture.
Are you not aware that many Northern Europeans have the E3B gene from Africa?
Are you not aware that Y DNA haplogroup A one of the most ancient signature of African origin has been found in greater concentration in England than in most African countries?
Are you not aware that most Europeans type for male DNA haplogroup R1B and R1A which rose from underived Y-DNA haplogroup R* which arose from western Cameroon and eastern Nigeria in West Africa?
So when you say that Greeks are like the Northern Europeans in genetic typing what then are you trying to say exactly? That you have “evolved” in the last 6,000 years in Europe into something else? Evolutionary time-frames are measured in hundreds of thousands and millions of years. Not decades and centuries.
Sometimes I think you want to be specious in your views.
Pink Europoids are nothing other than de-melaninated Africans!
That is the fact that keeps washing over your head. Just something you need to go home and think about.
Jahdey
But Jahdey every single human can trace their origins from Africa according to the “Out of Africa” theory, that does not mean they are of “African lineages”. That is a fact that keeps washing over your Afrocentric head. The E3b1 alpha the cluster found in most Europeans is a signature of a European cluster, and thats why no geneticist currently claims that E3b1 alpha is an “African” neolithic lineage in Europe. European lineages are derived from “Central Asian†Paleolithic haplogroup R , yet no one calls R lineages in Europe Central Asian. Geneticists recognize that the precursor to European and Near Eastern E3b1 lineages lie in East Africa, yet they do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every E3b1 clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithicâ€, because they all have different histories as well as being phylogeographically located and distributed differently. and if you falsely belive Europeans only appeared in the last 6000 years then you don’t know anything about Paleolithic Europe. Homo sapiens arrived in Europe during the Middle Upper Paleolithic, that’s around 22,000 B.C. ‘Just something you ned to go home and think about.’
Paleolithic Europe was African. Brown people with dolichocephalic index which is a signature of African descent.
Pink Europeans are nothing but de-melaninated Africans. Go figure.
Jahdey
Paleolithic Europe are derived from “Central Asian†Paleolithic haplogroup R, not African. Haplogroup R (Y-DNA) is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. R1 is very common throughout Europe and western Eurasia. Its distribution is believed to be associated with the re-settlement of Eurasia following the last glacial maximum. Its main subgroups are R1a (SRY1532) and R1b (M343).
To Jahdey and Dave
Peace to you both.
An excerpt-fragment-bit and peice of History
—”After the Red Race, the Black Race dominated the globe. One must look the the superior species in the Abyssinian and the Nubian, in whom is preserved the type of this race at its hieght. The latter invaded southern Europe in prehistoric times, and were driven back by its inhabitants. Their trace has been completly erased from our popular traditions. During the period of their supremacy, they had religious centers in upper Egypt and India. Their Cylcopean Cities crenelated the mountains of Africa, the Caucasus, and Central Asia.” Eduar Shure “The Great Initiates” (1889)
—O famed Cadmus, mighty black prince, son of Agenor, the king of ancient glorious Sidon in the long-perished land of Phoenicia by the sea;…though your heroic deeds and true idenity have long been forgotten….For you, O Cadmus were of the family of Giants of ancient Phoneica, those heroes of antiquity standing erect near ten feet tall, glistening black, fierce in battle…and no less divine.” Ovid, “Metamoporphsis”
—”It was the opinion of Sir Willams Jones , that a great nation of Blacks formally possessed the dominion of Asia, and held the seat of empire of Sidon.
Godfrey Higgins “Anacalypsis Vol.1″
—”The new age that began after the disappearance of Atlantis was marked by the world wide doninance of Ethiopian representatives of the black race.They were supreme in Africa and Asia…and they even infiltrated Southern Europe. But they were expelled from this latter place by a thousand years of bitter warfare between the races and onslaughts by the invaders from the north. The memory of the great advance of the blacks has been completely lost…for the dragon painted on the insignia of the kings was carried in the van of the black armies—was a final vestige of inter-racial wars preserved.” Georg Eugen, “The Adventure of Mankind”
—”The Kymry, flying in equal pace with ruin, are launching their wooden steeds upon the waters. The North has been poisoned by depredatory rovers of pale disgusting hue and hateful form, of the race of Adam the Ancient” ‘Here it is claimed for the Kymry that they belonged to the dark race, the pre-or , anti-Adamic race….It is a conflict of the dark and light races, such as said to be found in the Cuniform legends of Creation.’
Gerald Massey, “Book of the Begininnings”
Paleolithic-Mesolithic-This is why no one is really interested in history anymore–all these scientific terminologies are simply boring to the youth of today…
And then theres the Theoposist, H.P. Blavatsky’s colossal work “The Secret Doctrine”
More pseudo fairy tales by pseudo ‘scholars’. Yup agree with you on one thing, this is why the youth of today isn’t interested in history and science anymore, they’d rather believe in fictional things like the “Book of the Begininnings”, “Metamoporphsis” and “The Great Initiates”. Pitiful.
(1) Regarding Y-DNA R1b1* from Cameroon:
Dave how does Asian Y-DNA R differ from African Y-DNA R1b1*??
We need an answer today!
(2) Regarding Haplogroup E3B, Peter Underhill states:
Ann. Hum. Genet. (2001), 65, 43±62
The phylogeography of Y chromosome binary haplotypes and the origins of modern human populations
“As mentioned before in relation to African NRY history, a Mesolithic population carrying Group III lineages with the M35}M215 mutation (Jahdey’s comments: E3B) expanded northwards from sub-Saharan to north Africa and the Levant.â€
Thanks to OneWorl for the comments.
Jahdey
Haplogroup R and variants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29
….Haplogroup R1b1* (P25-derived) is found at high frequency among the native populations of northern Cameroon in west-central Africa….Some Y-chromosomes that appear to be closely related to the northern Cameroonian R1b1* are found at a substantial frequency among the modern population of Egypt. Many modern populations of northern Cameroon speak Chadic languages, which are classified as an ancient branch of the Afro-Asiatic superfamily of languages; the now extinct language of the Ancient Egyptians also belonged to the same superfamily.
Haplogroup R1b originated prior to or during the last glaciation, when it was concentrated in refugia in southern Europe and the Aegean. It is the most common haplogroup in Western Europe, but has been found at low frequency as far away as Iran and Korea. It is also found in North Africa where its frequency surpasses 10% in some parts of Algeria. In south-eastern England the frequency of R1b is about 70%; in parts of the rest of north and western England, Spain, Portugal, Wales and Ireland, it is as high as 90%; and in parts of north-western Ireland it reaches 98%. The R1b clade appears to have a much higher degree of internal diversity than R1a, which suggests that the M343 mutation that derives R1b from R1* may have occurred considerably earlier than the SRY1532 mutation that defines R1a.
You neglected to mention the most important facts as usual in your Afrocentric views: that R1 place of origin is in Asia; it is very common throughout Europe and western Eurasia and its found in Cameroon because of to BACK migration and the one found in Cameroon is ONE isolated clade (or clades) of Y chromosomes:
“It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. The majority of members of haplogroup R belong to the Haplogroup R1, defined by marker M173. R1 is very common throughout Europe and western Eurasia Its main subgroups are R1a (SRY1532) and R1b (M343).
One isolated clade (or clades) of Y chromosomes that appear to belong to Haplogroup R1b1* (P25-derived) is found at high frequency among the native populations of northern Cameroon in west-central Africa, which is believed to reflect a prehistoric BACK-migration of an ancient proto-Eurasian population into Africa;”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29
Dave
The only problem with you is that you read without discernment. You lack critical skills.
How can Asia be the origin of a gene which is found in Africa when we all know that Africa has been demonstrated to be the birth place of real Homo Sapiens?
When did this so-called back-migration take place?
What is the difference between African R1b1 and Asian R?
Have you ever cared to take a look at the pictures of the original Austronesians?
Go look at the pictures of the Andamanese, the earliest Asians. Check out the Australian Aborigines, go take a peek at the Fijians, the New Guineans, the negritos of Philipines and Malaysia.
When you look at those pix, come back and tell me your discovery. Just google the terms and click on the image tab, so the scales in your eyes will fall off.
Jahdey
And as usual you keep forgetting to mention key facts. Such as Dr. Underhill states the E3B alpha cluster found in Europeans cannot be used as an index of black African ancestry. BTW, you do realize that “African NRY” history talks about non-recombinant Y lineages, right? I.e. Out of Africa theory = non-recombinant Y lineages = Genetic recombination, the process by which a strand of genetic material is broken and then joined to a different DNA molecule, it is one of the ways a gene mutated = what scientists have been proven about genetic all along = that grouping all together as ‘same’ while ignoring expansion dates, the geographic positioning and distribution of each clusters that mutanted is misleading and goes against what geneticists say.
The problem with you, Jahdey, is you want to choose and pick what you want people to read, doesn’t work that way. You provided that article regarding Haplogroup R and when in that article that YOU provided specific states Northwest Asia as the place of origin for R and speaks about “a prehistoric back-migration of an ancient proto-Eurasian population into Africa;” you try to back track. Sorry can’t have it both ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29#R1
Dave
Kindly provide me the authority for this your quote:
“Such as Dr. Underhill states the E3B alpha cluster found in Europeans cannot be used as an index of black African ancestry….”
I want a link.
Second question: Is E3B alpha the only E Haplogroup extant in Europe? If no what are the other clusters? Please provide a link.
Finally, I repeat the UnderHill quotation for you to re-read:
“As mentioned before in relation to African NRY history, a Mesolithic population carrying Group III lineages with the M35}M215 mutation expanded northwards from sub-Saharan to north Africa and the Levant.â€
You mean you cannot see it still??? Give it Buddy. Don’t be specious.
Thanks
Jahdey
In all published literature this has *NEVER* been stated, especially in regards to E3b1-M78 alpha, which is simply a downstream M78 marker. That is Dr. Underhill OWN words, buddy, so I suggest you give it a rest.
“It cannot be used as an index of black african ancestry. Every non-african person traces ancestry to Africa.” ~P. Underhill
Underhill has always been of the belief that Greeks were of European Caucasian origins, not black Africans as proven by what he says in this article regarding some “Lebanese Christians are descendents of Crusaders and points to a genetic connection to the Crusaders,”:
“Peter Underhill is a senior research scientist at Stanford University who has previously analyzed Y chromosomes to study human migrations out of Africa.
Christians were established and converting “locals” in the Middle East prior to the arrival of the Crusaders, Underhill pointed out. The Greeks also had a pre-Crusade presence, so the chromosome match could have come from Greece rather than France or England.”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/03/080328-crusaders-dna_2.html
Meaning the chromosome match between Greece, France and England are the same. Also learn what they mean when they say “NRY history”, its not what you think.
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.” Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
So not only haplogroup E-M78 cannot be used as an index of black African ancestry but its also different from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East. No where does any genetic scientist ever claim the E3B alpha cluster found in Europeans is an index of black African ancestry. That is only found in the delusional minds of Afrocentric.
E3B is divided into many clusters by such markers as M35; M78;
Haplogroup E3b (M35) appears to have originated in East Africa, but has been carried from there to the Near East and then on to North Africa and Europe. Today it is most common in the horn of Africa, North Africa, the Near East and around the Mediterranean. One subgroup decreases in frequency from SE to NW Europe consistent with a dispersal mediated by the arrival of farmers in the Neolithic period, beginning 10,000 years ago.
M35, the marker which defines the E3b group (strictly E3b1) and the most important downstream markers:
* V13 is the most common subtype of E3b found in Europe and indicates descent from Near Eastern farmers in the Neolithic period.
* V32 is a marker of East African ancestry, and is commonly found in Ethiopia and Somalia.
* V12 and V22 are also found in Europe, but are rarer than V13 and also found in N Africa and E Africa (V22).
* M78* chromosomes originate in NW Africa, although movement to Italy has brought small numbers to Europe.
* M81 is a marker of the indigenous Berber people of North Africa, and has spread across the Straight of Gibraltar and to Southern Italy
* M123 and M34 are present on a lineage which originated in the Near East, but spread to East Africa and also to Sicily.
And if you notice like I have been saying all along the * V13 down stream marker is the most common subtype of E3b found in Europe and indicates descent from NEAR EASTERN farmers in the Neolithic period, not black Africans. Like I said before European lineages are derived from “Central Asian†Paleolithic haplogroup R , yet no one calls R lineages in Europe Central Asian. Geneticists recognize that the precursor to European and Near Eastern E3b1 lineages lie in East Africa, yet they do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every E3b1 clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithicâ€, because they all have different histories as well as being phylogeographically located and distributed differently.
Dave
V13 is the most common type in Europe and moved to Europe from Middle East. But who are the Middle Easterns, the write up shows you that E3B-V13 moved from Africa to Middle East….i.e. the Natufians.
V12 and V22 are also in Europe (from Africa), or did you go daft upon being confronted with that evidence?
M78 is a marker found predominantly in tropical Africa but which also exists in Europe.
M81 is all over North West Africa including Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Mauritania, Mali, and Cameroon. It is also found throughout southern Europe like Spain, Portugal, Greece, Malta, and Sicily.
Dave where are you from???
Genetics has no colour. Africans are not Blacks. Neither Europeans white. Those terms are false and misleading and have trapped you in a gloomy world of racialism.
Africans are phenotypically brown skinned people. Europeans are pink skinned people.
It has been demonstrated that two brown skinned people can make a pink skinned man like you but two pink skinned people like you could never make a brown skinned person.
More Genetics Lesson will follow if you dare to make yourself look more ignorant.
Jahdey
The one who is making himself look ignorant here is you, who continues with this Afrocentric fallacy that these markers show ‘black African lineage’. Incorrect. Near Easterners does not mean black African lineage. This is why in all published literature it has never been stated as such, especially in regards to E3b1-M78 alpha, which is simply a downstream M78 marker, that E3b show’s black African lineage .
The haplogroup that arose ca. 18.6 kya after the spread of E1b1b1* (M35) from the Horn of Africa to Egypt and has been further divided into subclades by Fulvio Cruciani, on the basis of the following SNP mutations is as follows.
E1b1b1a1 (V12*) The oldest sub-clade, found mainly in Southern Egyptians (arose ca. 15.2 kya); formerly comprised a few of Cruciani’s delta cluster.
E1b1b1a1a (V32*) Prevalent in the Horn of Africa among Somalis, Ethiopians, and Eritreans; formerly defined as the gamma cluster (arose ca. 8.5 kya).
E1b1b1a2 (V13*) The most prevalent clade among Europeans; first arose in West Asia ca. 11.5 kya, and equivalent with Cruciani’s alpha cluster.
E1b1b1a3 (V22*) Prevalent in Northeast Africa and Egypt, with higher microsatellite variance (0.35 vs. 0.46, respectively) in Egypt, comprising most of those classified in Cruciani’s earlier delta cluster.
V12 and V22 are found in N Africa and E Africa but are very RARE in Europe and show recent migration to the region.
Incorrect: Haplogroup E-M81 is localized in NW Africa (highest frequency 80% in Mozabite Berbers, and more than 50% in several populations of the region). In general regarding Europe, it appears that this marker occurs at very small frequencies less then 5% in the West and Central Mediterranean region of Europe with the exception of the southern Portuguese where its frequency is somewhat elevated. It is not found in the Balkans (Rumania, Bulgaria, Albania, Greece, Croatia) or elsewhere in Europe.
(M81); formerly E3b1b, E3b2
E1b1b1b: The most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa. Colloquially referred to as the “Berber marker” for its prevalence among Mozabite, Moyen Atlas, Kabyle and other Amazigh groups. Also quite common among North African Arab groups. Reaches frequencies of up to 80% in the Maghreb.
“Africans are phenotypically brown skinned people. Europeans are pink skinned people.”
One thing we seem to agree on, which is why Southern Europeans are not Africans aka phenotypically brown skinned people but EUROPEANS aka phenotypically pink skinned people.
Dave
I cannot understand your mindless babble it makes no sense. Please cite scientists when you write, I can no longer endure your pink drivel.
Here is what real genetists have to say:
On the basis of the previously published phylogeny (Y Chromosome Consortium 2002; Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003), the mutations M2/P1/M180, on the one hand, and M35/M215, on the other, further subdivide E3 in two monophyletic haplogroups: E3a and E3b. Both haplogroups are frequent in Africa (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002), although, to date, only E3b has also been observed in Europe (Semino et al.2000) and western Asia (Underhill et al. 2000; Cinniog? luet al. 2004).
The only mindless babble around here is by you. Again you seem to not understand what real genetists say when they talk about when they say that they recognize that the precursor to European and Near Eastern E3b1 lineages lie in East Africa, yet they do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every E3b1 clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithicâ€, because they all have different histories as well as being phylogeographically located and distributed differently.
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.” (Cruciani 2007)
Read more Dave, read more and learn about true genetics not some night school business:
E3a and E3b. Both haplogroups are frequent in Africa (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002), although, to date, only E3b has also been observed in Europe (Semino et al.2000) and western Asia (Underhill et al. 2000; Cinniog? luet al. 2004).
Recently, it has been proposed that E3b originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleistocene (Underhill et al. 2001). E3b lineages would have then been introduced from the Near East into southern Europe by immigrant farmers, during the Neolithic expansion(Hammer et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001).
I suggest you read more, Jahdey, and stop using pseudo Afrocentric in trying to misinform what genetic really say about this issue. The abstract says that “E3b lineages would have then been introduced from the Near East into southern Europe by immigrant farmers,” In other words, E3b came from the Near East by immigrant farmers, not Africa.
Read up on the concept of a single locus and genetic variation over a very long period of time. Studies explicitly state which haplgroups are of direct sub-Saharan origin and they are not the ones you keep trying to convince none Africans carry.
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.†(Cruciani 2007)
^^More unintelligent and incomprehensible crap from our inhouse clown Dave.
Here is what real scientist say:
E3b1-M78 is the most common haplogroup E lineage in Europe (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004). ……. Apart from its presence in Europe and the Middle East, E3b1 is also found in eastern and northern Africa. Cruciani et al. (2004)
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/10/1964
“E-M78 (for which microsatellite data suggest an eastern African origin) and, to a lesser extent, J-M12(M102) lineages would trace the subsequent diffusion of people from the southern Balkans to the west. A 7%-22% contribution of Y chromosomes from Greece to southern Italy was estimated by admixture analysis.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15069642?dopt=Abstract
More incomprehensible crap from the inhouse bozo Jahdey. No where do those real scientists ever claim E3b means black African lineages in none Africans. Point us to legit scientists who make such a fallacy of a claims, you won’t be able to because real scientist do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every E3b1 clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithicâ€, because they are not, they all have different histories as well as being phylogeographically located and distributed differently. If you actually read the whole research papers you keep posting instead of segments you would have known that what those real scientist claims is contrary to the dubious theory that some like to throw out there that V13 found in most Europeans was a direct result of Neolithic settlers from Africa, the majority of the halogroups e3b1-m78 is characterized from the monocleuid marker V13 in through out Europe. In the African samples however this marker was not found. This shows that there was no direct genetic contact, in other words, Europe was not settled by African populations as the DNA analysis show, but by settlers from Anatolia. This is what you can’t understand and this is why I said for you to read up on the concept of a single locus and genetic variation over a very long period of time. Studies explicitly state which haplgroups are of DIRECT sub-Saharan origin and they are not the ones you keep trying to convince none Africans carry with your dubious posts.
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.†(Cruciani 2007)
Real Scientists state:
“M35, the marker which defines the E3b group (strictly E3b1) and the most important downstream markers:
* V13 is the most common subtype of E3b found in Europe and indicates descent from Near Eastern farmers in the Neolithic period.
* V32 is a marker of East African ancestry, and is commonly found in Ethiopia and Somalia.
* V12 and V22 are also found in Europe, but are rarer than V13 and also found in N Africa and E Africa (V22).”
Dave whines: V12 and V22 are found in N Africa and E Africa but are very RARE in Europe and show recent migration to the region.
Jahdey roars:
Whatever clown…whatever!
Psst clown, there are many branches (to dumb it down for you) of E3B stem. But those branches all arise from the stem.
One more query clown, where is the Near East and who were the Stone age population of the Near East?
I luv your tomfoolery. Keep entertaining me…LOL!!!
“E-M78 (for which microsatellite data suggest an eastern African origin) and, to a lesser extent, J-M12(M102) lineages would trace the subsequent diffusion of people from the southern Balkans to the west. A 7%-22% contribution of Y chromosomes from Greece to southern Italy was estimated by admixture analysis.â€
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu…..t=Abstract
If you want to see a clown, look in the mirror, you are the biggest clown around. The mere fact that you think people from the Near East were ‘black Africans’ proves my point on how ignorant you are on this subject. Not one of those real scientist EVER made any claims that E3b found in none Africans means black African lineage. And those REAL scientist including the ones you keep posting very clearly state those immigrants were from the Near East and NOT Africa. Read up on the concept of a single locus and genetic variation over a very long period of time. Studies explicitly state which haplgroups are of DIRECT sub-Saharan origin and they are not the ones you keep trying to convince none Africans carry with your dubious posts
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.†(Cruciani 2007)
And in your typical misinformtion about what those real scientists say, you forgot or better yet deliberately left out THIS part from the article you posted:
“.. based on strong geographic structuring of diverse microsatellite motifs, E3b-M78 is suggested to be a collection of subclades with different evolutionary histories (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004) out of which the cluster, largely characterized by an A7.1 nine-repeat allele, is confined to Europe (the Balkans) and Turkey (Cruciani et al. 2004). E3b1 variance distribution depicted in figure 4(D) does not overlap with its frequency distribution possibly because analyzed E3b1 chromosomes harbor diverse background motifs.”
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/…..22/10/1964
Notice what real scientists say: “E3b-M78 is suggested to be a collection of subclades with different evolutionary histories…. E3b1 chromosomes harbor diverse background motifs” (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004). Like I said real scientist do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every E3b1 clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithicâ€, because they are not, they all have different histories as well as being different phylogeographically located and distributed differently.
Like I always tell all wannabes..genetics is not a science for grade 5 drop-outs like Dave.
Comical Dave whines:
“Not one of those real scientist EVER made any claims that E3b found in none Africans means black African lineage. And those REAL scientist including the ones you keep posting very clearly state those immigrants were from the Near East and NOT Africa.”
Real Scientists answer:
Recently, it has been proposed that E3b originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleistocene (Underhill et al. 2001).
E3b lineages would have then been introduced from the Near East into southern Europe by immigrant farmers, during the Neolithic expansion(Hammer et al. 1998; Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001).
Haplogroup E3b (M35) appears to have originated in East Africa, but has been carried from there to the Near East and then on to North Africa and Europe. Today it is most common in the horn of Africa, North Africa, the Near East and around the Mediterranean. One subgroup decreases in frequency from SE to NW Europe consistent with a dispersal mediated by the arrival of farmers in the Neolithic period, beginning 10,000 years ago. See: http://www.ethnoancestry.com/E3b.html
Ignorant Jahdey can’t understand facts once again. Not one of those real scientist EVER made any claims that E3b found in none Africans means black African lineage. And those REAL scientist including the ones you keep posting very clearly state those immigrants were from the Near East and NOT Africa. Read up on the concept of a single locus and genetic variation over a very long period of time. Studies explicitly state which haplgroups are of DIRECT sub-Saharan origin and they are not the ones you keep trying to convince none Africans carry with your dubious posts.
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.†(Cruciani 2007)
“.. based on strong geographic structuring of diverse microsatellite motifs, E3b-M78 is suggested to be a collection of subclades with different evolutionary histories (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004) out of which the cluster, largely characterized by an A7.1 nine-repeat allele, is confined to Europe (the Balkans) and Turkey (Cruciani et al. 2004). E3b1 variance distribution depicted in figure 4(D) does not overlap with its frequency distribution possibly because analyzed E3b1 chromosomes harbor diverse background motifs.â€
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/…..22/10/1964
Like I said real scientist do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every E3b1 clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithicâ€, because they are not, they all have different histories as well as being different phylogeographically located and distributed differently.
Well my little Slavonic wannabe Greek called Dave, I gonna show you right now the African roots of your own pink slavonic arse.
“To elucidate the origin of African-specific mtDNA lineages, revealed previously in Slavonic populations (at frequency of about 0.4%), we completely sequenced eight African genomes belonging to haplogroups L1b, L2a, L3b, L3d and M1 gathered from Russians, Czechs, Slovaks and Poles. Results of phylogeographic analysis suggest that at least part of the African mtDNA lineages found in Slavs (such as L1b, L3b1, L3d) appears to be of West African origin, testifying to an opportunity of their occurrence as a result of migrations to Eastern Europe through Iberia.” See: Boris A Malyarchuk et. al “Reconstructing the phylogeny of African mitochondrial DNA lineages in Slavs,†European Journal of Human Genetics 9 April 2008;
Your own grandmother was an African. And you pitiful wretch wallows in blissful racialist ignorance. You are psychologically demented by blinding and suffocating self loathing. You are a de-melaninated African…a pink child of brown provenance. Accept this and heal your hurt. Rootless savage!
Thou pitiful wretch lost cold and pink in the last great glacial maximum. You have been found. You will also be redeemed. That is the law of nature. Truth is here for you Dave, to save you from your vacuity.
Heavens help you Mr. Orphesus Ignoramus aka Dave!
Jahdey
The only wanna be around here is you, Jahdey, meaning you want to make every single none AFricans, i.e. Europeans, Asians, etc., into black Africans based upon your sad excuse of not understanding basic genetics. What a moron you are.
“.. based on strong geographic structuring of diverse microsatellite motifs, E3b-M78 is suggested to be a collection of subclades with different evolutionary histories (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004) out of which the cluster, largely characterized by an A7.1 nine-repeat allele, is confined to Europe (the Balkans) and Turkey (Cruciani et al. 2004). E3b1 variance distribution depicted in figure 4(D) does not overlap with its frequency distribution possibly because analyzed E3b1 chromosomes harbor diverse background motifs.â€
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/…..22/10/1964
Like I told you a thousand times before, real scientist do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithicâ€, because they are not, they all have different histories as well as being different phylogeographically located and distributed differently. But given you lack of understanding what real scientists say and mean it doesn’t surprise me at all that you would misquote and misrepresent what real scientists say. Very pathetic on your part.
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.†(Cruciani 2007)
Ophesus Ignoramus aka Dave
“To elucidate the origin of African-specific mtDNA lineages, revealed previously in Slavonic populations (at frequency of about 0.4%), we completely sequenced eight African genomes belonging to haplogroups L1b, L2a, L3b, L3d and M1 gathered from Russians, Czechs, Slovaks and Poles. Results of phylogeographic analysis suggest that at least part of the African mtDNA lineages found in Slavs (such as L1b, L3b1, L3d) appears to be of West African origin, testifying to an opportunity of their occurrence as a result of migrations to Eastern Europe through Iberia.†See: Boris A Malyarchuk et. al “Reconstructing the phylogeny of African mitochondrial DNA lineages in Slavs,†European Journal of Human Genetics 9 April 2008;
Yeah at a at frequency of about 0.4%, ants eat more then that. There’s more Caucasian lineages found in Africans then that, guess by your dubious theories that makes Africans “Caucasians”. LOL!!! Your pathetic agenda of trying to make none African people into “black Africans” has been exposed many time over.
“.. based on strong geographic structuring of diverse microsatellite motifs, E3b-M78 is suggested to be a collection of subclades with different evolutionary histories (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004) out of which the cluster, largely characterized by an A7.1 nine-repeat allele, is confined to Europe (the Balkans) and Turkey (Cruciani et al. 2004). E3b1 variance distribution depicted in figure 4(D) does not overlap with its frequency distribution possibly because analyzed E3b1 chromosomes harbor diverse background motifs.â€
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.†(Cruciani 2007)
# Dave aka Opesus Ignoramus whined: “Yeah at a at frequency of about 0.4%..”
Jahdey roars:
Admission! At least we are getting somewhere. Now your problem centres on percentages eh? So here goes:
“E-M78 (for which microsatellite data suggest an eastern African origin) and, to a lesser extent, J-M12(M102) lineages would trace the subsequent diffusion of people from the southern Balkans to the west. A 7%-22% contribution of Y chromosomes from Greece to southern Italy was estimated by admixture analysis.â€
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu…..t=Abstract
Secondly, the saddest aspect of your debacle is that you do not even understand that the implications of your own cut and paste amount to an admission that the E3B gene from Kenya and Mozambique in East Africa was in Europe before the first pinkoids were born.
Being a semi-illiterate slavonic greek wannabe I understand that english grammar is not your strongest point. But you should really learn to read and critically analyze.
It appears you do not understand your cut and paste. What do you understand from Cruciani’s comments? What do you learn from Underhill’s observations??
But then, what can one expect from a slavic greek-wannabe troll who calls himself Dave aka Ophesus Ignoramus aka “Mr. Sicklecell Gene is a mosquito virus”.
Keep on trolling. But this humiliation you just got will teach you not to come babbling your pink mouth when you have nothing to say.
The real scientists have clarified your confusion.
Jahdey
Cutting, pasting and misquoting what real scientist say is your speciality not mine, ignoranus. Unlike what delusional Afrocentric naive fools like yourself falsely beileve, real scientist do *NOT* over-emphasize it to the point of calling every clade and cluster “black Africanâ€, “Africanâ€, East African and or “African Neolithic†because they are not, they all have different histories as well as being different phylogeographically located and distributed differently. But given you lack of understanding what real scientists say and mean it doesn’t surprise me at all that you would misquote and misrepresent what real scientists say. Your pathetic agenda of trying to make none African people into “black Africans†has been exposed many time over.
“.. based on strong geographic structuring of diverse microsatellite motifs, E3b-M78 is suggested to be a collection of subclades with different evolutionary histories (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004) out of which the cluster, largely characterized by an A7.1 nine-repeat allele, is confined to Europe (the Balkans) and Turkey (Cruciani et al. 2004). E3b1 variance distribution depicted in figure 4(D) does not overlap with its frequency distribution possibly because analyzed E3b1 chromosomes harbor diverse background motifs.â€
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004
“The most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.†(Cruciani 2007)
Mr. Sickle cell is a Mosquito Virus
What is the meaning of this quote:
“Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East.†Am. J. Hum. Genet., 74:1014-1022, 2004