Genetic Evidence of the Nigerian and Ethiopian Origin of the Ancient Greek
Edited By Jide Uwechia from cited Sources
The Benin Haplogroup or Haplogroup 19 Common In Africans, Greeks and Albanians
There are at least four distinct African, (known as Senegal, Congo, Benin, Bantu Hbs Haplogroups) and one Asian chromosomal backgrounds (haplotypes) on which the sickle cell mutation has arisen.
The Benin haplotype (which originates from Nigeria, West Africa) accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, and South West Saudi Arabia, suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations. Per:Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, The Geography Of Sickle Cell Disease:Opportunities For Understanding Its DiversityRSITY: http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/143/rev9239.html
Nigeria, west Africa appears the most logical origin of the sickle mutation in Greece evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms (1991). It has been conclusively demonstrated that HbS in Greece is mostly haplotype #19 (the one that originated in Benin, Nigeria West Africa). See, Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas P.; The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Unit for Prenatal Diagnosis, Laikon Hospital, Athens, Greece.
Additionally, previous data suggest that the S/Bantu haplotype (from Southern Africa) is heterogeneous at the molecular level. Recent studies also report a similar heterogenity for the Benin Haplogroup. A study demonstrated the presence of the A -499 TA variation in sickle cell anemia chromosomes of Sicilian and North African origin bearing the S/Benin haplotype (from Nigeria). Being absent from North American S/Benin chromosomes, which were studied previously, this variation is indicative for the molecular heterogeneity of the S/Benin haplotype. Am. J. Hematol. 80:79-80, 2005.
A study was done in Albania (which borders Greece) relating to sickle cell anemia, sickle cell beta-thalassemia, and thalassemia major in Albania. The focus of the study was the characterization of sickle cell mutations. As one would expect, it was shown that the HbS mutation in the Albanian sample is the Benin (Nigeria)-originating haplotype #19. See, Boletini E, Svobodova M, Divoky V, Baysal E, Cürük MA, Dimovski AJ, Liang R, Adekile AD, Huisman TH.; Sickle cell anemia, sickle cell beta-thalassemia, and thalassemia major in Albania: characterization of mutations. : Hum Genet. 1994 Feb;93(2):182-7.
Y Haplogroup E-M78 and YAP In Black Africans and Greeks
Y Haplogroup E-M78 a derivative of E3B is a signature African gene as confirmed in research studies over the last few years. The high frequency of this haplogroup in Greece suggests the presence of a substantive African population in that region during prehistoric and historical time periods.
A recent paper has detected clades of haplogroups J and E3b that were likely not part of pre-historic migrations into Europe, but rather spread by later historical movements. Greeks ….. [then there is] the marker J-M267, which may reflect more recent Middle Eastern admixture.”
(Semino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2004) E3b originates from East Africa while there is a high frequency of J-M267 in the East Coast of Africa as well as the Red sea coast of Arabia.
A recent sampling of the Greek population comprised 36 Peloponnesian samples, 5 of which were J-M172(xM12) and 17 of which were E-M78 (R.K., unpublished data).
In spite of the small Peloponnesian sample size, the high E-M78 frequency (47%) observed here is consistent with that (44%) independently found in the same region (Di Giacomo et al. 2003) for the YAP chromosomes harboring microsatellite haplotypes A. (Novelletto, personal communication) (Cruciani et al. 2004).
The study by by Di Giacomo et al. found the following African haplogroups in Greeks: Haplogroup A which is highly specific to West Africa, R1a, DE, and J2*(xDYS413= 18)J*(xJ2). R1* which probably gave rise to R1a is found in Northern Cameroon. DE is found principally among Nigerians and it is suspected that it originated from Nigeria. J is very prominent in East, and North Africa.
High-resolution Y-chromosome haplotyping and particular microsatellite associations reveal … an East Africa homeland for E-M78.Origin. See Ornella Semino, Chiara Magri, et al “Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory Events in the Mediterranean Area” http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15069642
HLA Genetic Relationship Between Ancient Greeks and Black Africans
HLA genes are reliable markers of past population movement and are still used in laboratories today to establish genetic inter-relationship amongst seemingly diverse peoples.
HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks (2001) was a study conducted by Dr. Arniaz and other scholars in a top flying Spanish University. This study uses HLA genes to establish the African dimension of the roots of ancient Greece.
According to the Arniaz study, …..Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt. See Arnaiz-Villena A,et.al: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks. Tissue Antigens. 2001 Feb;57(2):118-27
There is a fraudulent claim (by those with idealogical investments in the topic) on the Internet that this study has been “retracted” or “refuted.” The study is perfectly valid. Sub-Saharan-specific and quasi-sub-Saharan-specific alleles were definitely detected in the Greek population at the DRB1 locus, and this is not open to question.
It would be helpful here to discuss the study that was retracted, and the reason why. It is the work titled: “The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations” (which contained some cross-referenced Greek data in a neighbor-joining dendogram and a correspondence analysis) that was retracted. And it was retracted solely and strictly for political reasons, as this Observer article makes crystal clear:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4307083,00.html
(Keep in mind we are dealing with the study on the relatedness of Jews and Palestinians at the moment, which was retracted, and not the one on the Greek-Black African relatedness, which was not retracted and remains valid. The two must not be confused.)
Appreciations to: http://onedroprule.org/about1071.html
101 Responses “The Nigerian/Ethiopian Roots Of the Ancient Greeks - Edited By - Jide Uwechia”
I always suspected there was more to this ancient Greek story. If they carry so many Nigerian specific genes, then they must have descended from those ancient Nigerians.
Is that why Leo Frobenius and others like him swore that the arts and religion of the Nigerian Yorubas were remarkably similar in concept, style and execution as the early Greek arts?
Is that why the terra-cotta art work of the Nok culture of Nigeria appears like the prototype of Greek terra-cotta art?
One lives and learns everyday.
One Love
Jahdey
Jahdey
June 22nd, 2007 at 4:52 pm. Permalink.
Jide:
This is alarmingly shocking!
July 6th, 2007 at 12:48 pm. Permalink.
This is a bunch of historical revisionist tripe. It can also be called historical reaqusition where one group overlays false claims with dubious historical and scientific claims to aquire the historical heritage of another group. It is often an overcopensation for a sence of cultural inferiority.
August 5th, 2007 at 5:12 pm. Permalink.
Jon Eills
Relax relax don’t lose yur cool. No need to squeak like a frightened rat.
What you see on the article here is a bold claim backed by irrefutable scientific evidence, further bolstered by textual and graphic evidence coming from the agean and the Greek Islands.
What is your issue? Marshal out your points and refute the arguments. Save us your angst, your hate and your bitterness.
Focus on the work and debunk the facts on its logic and coherence if you can…if you dare…if you have the light of intelligence in you.
Jahdey
August 5th, 2007 at 6:15 pm. Permalink.
“In my own skeletal samples from Greece I note apparent negroid nose and mouth traits in two of fourteen Early Neolithic, only two or three more among 364 from fifth to second millenium B.C., one among 113 Early Iron Age, one or two among 233 Classic and Hellenistic skeletons, but four Negroids (all from one area of Early Christian Corinth) among ninety-five Roman period, two among eighty-five Medieval, and of course ten among fifty-two Turkish period Greeks, yet none among 202 of Romantic (nineteenth century) to date.”( J. Lawrence Angel: American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 74, No. 1/2 (Feb. - Apr., 1972),
To break it down:
Only TWO among 14 during the Early Neolithic period, pretty low contribution for a population that is said have ’started’ it all
Only TWO or THREE among THREE HUNDRED & SIXTY FOUR between the fifth to second millenium B.C(Minoan time line). Again very low contribution if only a few have been found among HUNDREDS that don’t exist for a society that some have been falsely claiming were the originators of European civilization.
Only ONE among ONE HUNDRED & THIRTEEN during the Iron Age(The Iliad time line), again very low contribution.
Only ONE or TWO among TWO HUNDRED & THIRTY-THREE from the Classical to the Hellenistic period(that ends when Rome takes over Hellenic world) again low contribution.
Only FOUR among NINETY-FIVE from the Roman period and they all came from the same area, again very low contribution.
Only TWO among EIGHTY-FIVE during the Medieval period of Greece, again low contribution.
TEN among FIFTY-TWO during TURKISH period
ZERO, NONE, ZIP, NADA findings among TWO HUNDRED and TWO of Romantic (nineteenth century) to date aka in MODERN TIMES.
Conclusion: since Early Neolithic period African blacks were not the contributors of European / Aegean civilizations as some falsely claim.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:40 am. Permalink.
Andrea
You are citing a 1972 work ( J. Lawrence Angel: American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 74, No. 1/2 (Feb. - Apr., 1972), to refute a series of research done between 1991 to 2005? (example: Am. J. Hematol. 80:79-80, 2005; Hum Genet. 1994 Feb;93(2):182-7; etc)
What wretchedness. You are so desperate to smear Black African history with your neo-nazi hogwash that you would resort to the lowly tactis of using outdate research works to debunk new findings just rolling out of the fields and the labs? Again what a pitiful soul you are.
You mean you have never realize that science is incremental in knowledge and dated works cannot stand before their updated and corrected versions?
The article in the main post discusses about recent findings 1991 to 2005. In rebutal you cite research work done in 1971!!!
You are as outdated as your anachronistic sources. You have again shown yourself to be an irrelevant, illiterate, racist troll seeking attention on this site.
It is clear you really have nothing to contribute but distraction and as such I am asking the moderator to ban you and your lower life trolling types from this site.
Jahdey
August 29th, 2007 at 9:28 am. Permalink.
Oxford University geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer (author of ‘The Seven Daughters of Eve’, and ‘The Origins of the British’) has done research that proves that all of humanity came from a mass exodus from sub-Saharan (black) Africa. Thus all humans on earth, whether past, present, or future, have black DNA at various degrees. So I don’t believe that these studies are trying to rob Europeans or Arabs of their accomplishments.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:52 pm. Permalink.
Correction to my previous post. Dr. Oppenheimer’s Oxford University colleague, Bryan Sykes, is the author of ‘The Seven Daughters of Eve’…My apologies to Dr. Sykes.
September 22nd, 2007 at 12:52 pm. Permalink.
‘The primary defect of such studies is that the authors relied on a single genetic marker, the HLA-DRB1 gene, to determine the genetic closeness of a large number of ethnic groups from Africa, the Near East, and the Mediterranean. Commenting on the work of this research group, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza-probably the world’s leading expert on studies of this sort-and his colleagues stated, “Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.”37 Greeks clustered with other European populations on genetic maps, far from the aggregation of North African and sub-Saharan groups.’
- The Gene Wars: Diana Muir Appelbaum ; Paul S. Appelbaum
October 5th, 2007 at 5:51 am. Permalink.
The substantial evidnece supporting these claims are evidently correct blood doesn’t lie. Might I add if you were to look at the greeks of today they have very flat noses which is a Negroid trait but Turks also have these types of traits.
More importantly this proves that the Macedonians are infact seperate and not in anyway linked.
November 23rd, 2007 at 5:32 am. Permalink.
What a celebration of an inferiority complex.. as proven through the selective copy/pastes and their convenient little distortions.
Why resort to such manipulation of facts?
Why speak of “substantive African population” when the author (Seminio) indicates that E-M78 moved into the region 7–14 thousand years (ky) ago ??
Why allegedly quote paper which you have NEVER READ?
This is more than simply evident when you allegedly quote the Loukopoulos paper (obviously found its reference in that of R.Graham) when you totally ignore that they suggest INTRODUCTION OF THE BETA S MUTATION THE LAST FEW CENTURIES.
Finally the very reference to the propaganda paper by Villena that was trashed proves your true intentions, as were his by a simple glance at it.. (but we’ve already concluded that you don’t read papers)
Learn that the results were rejected because he used A SINGLE GENETIC MARKER (HLA DRB1) when the use of AT LEAST 60 is DEMANDED for results of approx. 90% accuracy.
I’d suggest that the author and his followers find pride in who they are, their culture and their ancestor’s true achievments and forget about such rediculous claims which are nothing more than a celebration of some inferiority complex.
December 6th, 2007 at 12:40 pm. Permalink.
^^Orphesus
You are the one that is a liar and illiterate. The one with a hidden agenda and I shall unmask you:
Your name Orphic Hymn is cultural theft as neither yourself nor your ancestors ever had any thing to do with Greece. By your tone I presume an undereducated Northwestern European type, the types full of hype and hubris. The ones sounding fury and wrath at history though they have no clue of their own origin or history.
If a wretch like you can claim connections to the Greeks when there is no such linkage, what standing do you have to condemn the claims of those whose entitlement to Greek civilization is both documented by the Greeks and the Egyptians in their antique texts as well as validated by modern genetic research.
Or is it a lie that Haplogroup 19 originates form Nigeria, in Africa? Is it a lie that Greeks, Albanians, and Turks present a high prevalence of Haplogroup 19?
Is this the first time you are hearing of the African origin of E-M78?
Mr. Ophesus Ignoramus, these are established scientific facts beyond debate. Go do a simple goggle check rather than spending all your time on silly Aryan Racist website and under-educating your self with half-baked colonial mythology. This is the 21st century not Victorian England where lies were hallowed. Here on Rastalivewire, lies are buried and the half that was not told is boldly stated.
In the above article, close to a dozen authorities were cited. Go read them up digest and compare their messages with your baseless, stupid racists assumptions. Times have changed, Mr Orphesus.
Rasta is the original African lion…unconcerned with the sentiments of allies and enemies. I and I have been sent by the Right Honourable Marcus Mosiah Garvey, His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie, and his Excellency President Kwame Nkrumah to spread the truth where there used to be lies and to counter negative and weak heart conceptions like yours with positive vibration.
You just got introduced to a new template of historical interpretation. Study with an open mind so that you can grow.
Finally, on inferiority complex, you are the one with that terrible affliction as I have shown you to be a thief of culture; undereducated, ignorant and weakminded. Those are the obvious symptoms of inferiority complex. Additionally is the fact that you are trying to use our website to advertise your cheap and sloppy website which I know none visits because you have no information to provided. That low trick of yours, trying to hyperlink your website to ours demonstrates how direly you are in need of acknowledgment.
All this is to say that we hope you are better informed on your next visit. There are many other powerful articles on this site to help unburden your soul of the terrible affliction of inferiority complex which underlies all racial hatred. I strongly recommend that you read them.
Jahdey
December 6th, 2007 at 1:07 pm. Permalink.
So distortion is a habbit, not only of genetic papers but also of screen names and all that in a pathetic display of the resentment to the feeling of humiliation of being exposed..
Just to think that you were allegedly going to “unmask” me but resorted to nothing more than an endless rambling which doesn’t address anything I posted indicates that you are truly pathetic.
You could have just answered my questions.. but that obviously far too difficult because then you’d have to admit the INTENTIONAL DISTORTION.
Since your comprehension of the simplest of posts is limited, I’ll break it down so that even an intellectual midget like yourself can understand.
The article is titled “Genetic Evidence of the Nigerian and Ethiopian Origin of the Ancient Greek” and allegedly cites the 1991 Loukopoulos paper titled “The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms”
all this in an attempt to justify this absurd claim of the ANCIENT HELLENES being of Nigerian and Ethiopian origin..
While I’m up to the debate, the question remains.. WHY DISTORT ITS CONTEXT?
The Loukopoulos paper clearly speaks of LAST FEW CENTURIES.. now while you dare title me illiterate, let me do you a favor by informing you that CENTURY = 100 YEARS and the clarification of LAST MILLENIUM as found in the paper’s abstract, should have indicated that its use as alleged proof of your allegations was a nothing more than a mistake which you could have easily accepted.
BUT true and objective information isn’t what you’re aiming at.. hence why you avoided indicating that the paper is refering to the LAST MILLENIUM (MILLENIUM = 1000 YEARS) and tried to link it to your absurd theory.
As for E-M78.. I know very well the origin of E-M78.. the problem, your problem to be exact is that you either are totally incapable of comprehending the very simple english in which Seminio’s paper is written or we turn to the logical conclusion which is that her research is totally indifferent to your inferiority complex, hence why you resorted to intentionally distorting it.
the paper reads:
“The network of EM78 and that of E-M123 are in agreement with the
hypothesis of their ancient presence in the Near East and
their subsequent expansion into the southern Balkans.
The divergence time (TD) (Zhivotovsky 2001) between
the Near East and European lineages has been estimated
to a range of 7–14 thousand years (ky) ago.”
Now this 7-14 THOUSAND YEARS AGO (note thousand = 100 x 10) ends the little fairy-tale of linking it to your wet-dreams of plagiarising a history and cuture which you have no connection to what so ever.
Finally as for hyperlinking websites.. While I know its not required.. why the hell ask for it if you don’t want others to post it?
PS: Orphic derives from Orpheus but that is obviously beyond your comprehension.
PS2: next time try to address what is posted instead of bring in Aryan crap theories and pathetic displays of your ignorance by throwing Nazi innuendos.
December 6th, 2007 at 4:46 pm. Permalink.
Fake Orphesus Ignoramus
You are a bigger illiterate than I thought. How did you manage to get past grade 5?
The article on the Nigerian Ethiopian Origins of the Ancient Greeks states in paragraph 4 that:
“…Nigeria, west Africa appears the most logical origin of the sickle mutation in Greece evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms (1991). It has been conclusively demonstrated that HbS in Greece is mostly haplotype #19 (the one that originated in Benin, Nigeria West Africa). See, Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas P.; The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Unit for Prenatal Diagnosis, Laikon Hospital, Athens, Greece.”
According to M.Loukoupolos paper:
“…Subsequent haplotype analysis of the b.beta-globin gene cluster in 82 b.betaS chromosomes demonstrated that 79 (96%) belonged to haplotype #19, while the three exceptions (all Hpa I negative) could be explained by a b.delta-b.beta recombination event. Haplotype #19 was never encountered in a parallel study of the 83 b.betaA chromosomes. Comparison of the above results with similar surveys in other parts of the world and consideration of various historical events suggest that the b.betaS mutation was introduced into Greece over the last few centuries by the Saracen raids and/or by settlements of North African slaves brought in by the Arabs, Franks, Venetians, or Ottoman Turks, who have occupied the country over the last millennium.”
How does this assertion by Loukoupolous contradict paragraph 4 of the article?
Africa is identified by Loukoupolous as the origin of HBS. Haplotype 19 is of Nigerian origin. The Loukoupolos article was cited to support the identity of Haplotype 19 as Nigerian in origin. It was never cited to provide the age of Haplotype 19 in Europe. That is why I call you an unmitigated illiterate and ignoramus. Completely without comprehension.
Sickle Cell Antiquity in Europe
Respecting the age of this haplotype 19 in Southern Europe we used the research of other eminent authorities such as Dr. Seargeant to establish the fact that by the time of historical antiquity the gene was well established in southern Europe. Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, The Geography Of Sickle Cell Disease:Opportunities For Understanding Its DiversityRSITY: http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/143/rev9239.html
Other support for the age of HBS in Europe can be deduced by validating the age of the malaria parasite in Europe since sickle cell is a mutation that occurs in response to endemic malaria. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4587311.stm
It is well established that malaria was in Europe way back 6,000 years ago. See The History of Malaria: http://www.museums.org.za/bio/.....alaria.htm
The Greek medical authority Hippocratis described malaria as an affliction in his medical text which have been dated to the 6th and 5th century BC. See http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g.....tid=547919
If malaria is at least 5000 years in Europe, and sickle cell is a mutation that occurs in response to malaria pandemia, then one can presume that there must have been sickle cell mutations in Southern Europe as early as 5,000 years ago. Right?
How old is ancient Greece? All calculations establish that the Greeks became prominent in ancient history about 3,000 years ago.
Who were those ancient Greeks? They were human beings who had in their genetic makeup, the HBS gene that protected against malaria.
What is that gene specifically speaking? The gene found in Greece and the Greeks present a Nigerian origin since the Haplotype 19 is originated in Nigeria.
So Mr. Ignoramus Ophersus, does that help solve your problem? One has to use deductive and inductive reasoning faculties in reading and understanding the message of research work. But then your problem lies in the deficiency of those critical faculties. Rote learning was your creation, it will be your ruins.
A parting shot will be this quotation by several sickle cell experts who have studied the European angle: “The lack of haplotype diversity associated with most of the malaria resistance mutations found in modern Mediterranean populations suggests that they have evolved within the last few thousand years.” See:
G O Tadmouri, N Garguier, J Demont, P Perrin, and A N Başak, ‘History and origin of β-thalassaemia in Turkey: sequence haplotype diversity of β-globin genes’, Human Biology, 2001, 73: 661–74; L Zahed, J Demont, R Bouhass, G Trabuchet, C Hänni, et al., ‘Origin and history of the IVS-I-110 and codon-39 β-thalassemia mutations in the Lebanese population’, Human Biology, 2002, 74: 837–47; S A Tishkoff, R Varkonyi, N Cahinhinan, S Abbes, G Argyropoulos, et al. ‘Haplotype diversity and linkage disequilibrium at human G6PD: recent origin of alleles that confer malarial resistance’, Science, 2001, 293: 455–62; L Luzzatto and R Notaro, ‘Malaria: protecting against bad air’, Science, 2001, 293: 442–3; P C Sabeti, D E Reich, J M Higgins, H Levine, D Richter, et al. ‘Detecting recent positive selection in the human genome from haplotype structure’, Nature, 2002, 419: 832–7.
Learn!!! Read some more at: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g.....47919#fn54
BTW: Next time please cite your authorities. You are one ignoramus and I will not be considering your stupidness next time unless you provide peer reviewed authorities.
And that your website is one hog wash. How many visitors come to read your vapidness and insipidity?
I remain your teacher (Black and bold)
Jahdey
December 7th, 2007 at 10:10 am. Permalink.
Orphesus
You wrote as follows:
As for E-M78.. I know very well the origin of E-M78..”
I want the answer: what is the origin of E-M78??
Answer will be found here: http://www.google.ca/search?hl.....#038;meta=
Does that resolve your problem???
If E-M78 arose in Africa and was in Southern Europe and the Mediterranean by 14 KYA according to you…doesn’t that demonstrate to you the antiquity of African/Ethiopian presence in Europe?
“…the problem, your problem (sic)to be exact is that you either are totally incapable of comprehending the very simple english in which Seminio’s paper is written or we turn to the logical conclusion which is that her research is totally indifferent to your inferiority complex, hence why you resorted to intentionally distorting it.”
Perfect lines written by a stupid moron to describe his true motivations.
Jahdey
December 7th, 2007 at 10:25 am. Permalink.
Paragraph 4.. LOL Child I don’t care how the author distorted the paper since his intentions are more than obvious. As I told you prior to allegedly presenting a citation of any paper the first thing you should do is read and comprehend the damn thing and you’ve proven time and time again to be either incapable of doing so or simply too damn brainwashed by those that “sent you” to see that you’re making a fool of yourself.
The article above claims origin of ANCIENT Hellenes.. Yes!?!
Now read and tell me how the hell does a paper that speaks of LAST MILLENIUM support his audacious claims ?
>>Comparison of the above results with similar surveys in other parts of the world and consideration of various historical events suggest that the beta S mutation was introduced into Greece over the last few centuries by the Saracen raids and/or by settlements of North African slaves brought in by the Arabs, Franks, Venetians, or Ottoman Turks, who have occupied the country over the last millennium.<>The factor in common to the distribution of the sickle cell gene is therefore malaria and not African ancestry.<>the clinal frequency distribution of E-M78a
within Europe testifies to important dispersal(s), most
likely Neolithic or post-Neolithic. These took place from
the Balkans, where the highest frequencies are observed,
in all directions, as far as Iberia to the west and, most
likely, also to Turkey to the southeast. Thus, it appears
that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup
E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in
this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type
that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes
from the Near East. These data are hard to reconcile
with the hypothesis of a uniform spread of a single
Near Eastern gene pool into southeastern Europe. On the
other hand, they might be consistent with either a smallscale
leapfrog migration from Anatolia into southeastern
Europe at the beginning of the Neolithic or with an expansion
of indigenous people in southeastern Europe in
response to the arrival of the Neolithic cultural package<<
So the ALPHA CLUSTER which is the cluster found in Greece is either a Balkan region specific cluster from which it spread throughout Europe or it “leap-frogged” to the Balkans from Anatolia..
When did this take place?
See page 17 and read 7.8KY which means approx. 8.000 and yes my illiterate little friend that is THOUSAND YEARS AGO.
So the question is, even if it was an African marker (WHICH IT ISN’T) how do you intend to justify your claims on a people whom you yourself claim appeared only 3000yrs ago.. what happened with the 5000yr GAP (which is even bigger than your previous claims)?
Conclusions:
a) Sickle Cell IS NOT related to ancestry !!!
b) the paper (Loukopoulos) you’ve rediculously used to claim ancient Hellenes speaks of LAST MILLENIUM
c) E-M78 ALPHA CLUSTER is either a local or Anatolian imported during the NEOLITHIC cluster.
PS: try to understand that your pathetic display of petty provocations through the distortion of my screen name only adds to your ridicule.
December 7th, 2007 at 2:34 pm. Permalink.
Disregard or delete the previous since it got screwed up during the copy/paste.
December 7th, 2007 at 2:36 pm. Permalink.
Last try…
Paragraph 4.. LOL Child I don’t care how the author distorted the paper since his intentions are more than obvious. As I told you prior to allegedly presenting a citation of any paper the first thing you should do is read and comprehend the damn thing and you’ve proven time and time again to be either incapable of doing so or simply too damn brainwashed by those that “sent you” to see that you’re making a fool of yourself.
The article above claims origin of ANCIENT Hellenes.. Yes!?!
Now read and tell me how the hell does a paper that speaks of LAST MILLENIUM support his audacious claims ?
>>Comparison of the above results with similar surveys in other parts of the world and consideration of various historical events suggest that the beta S mutation was introduced into Greece over the last few centuries by the Saracen raids and/or by settlements of North African slaves brought in by the Arabs, Franks, Venetians, or Ottoman Turks, who have occupied the country over the last millennium.<<
I won’t get into the historical inaccuracies of Saracen raids which were limited to a single island, to that of Skiathos, nor the claim of a non-existant Arab rule not even to the non-recorded African slaves.. but strictly centralize on the FACT that you present a paper that speaks of LAST MILLENIUM while making claims on ANTIQUITY !!!
Lets hope you finally understand that the 1500yr GAP simply trashes your every claim.
December 7th, 2007 at 2:39 pm. Permalink.
Graham’s paper:
you intentionally omit to mention is that he clearly states in the 2nd paragraph:
>>The factor in common to the distribution of the sickle cell gene is therefore malaria and not African ancestry.<>the clinal frequency distribution of E-M78a
within Europe testifies to important dispersal(s), most
likely Neolithic or post-Neolithic. These took place from
the Balkans, where the highest frequencies are observed,
in all directions, as far as Iberia to the west and, most
likely, also to Turkey to the southeast. Thus, it appears
that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup
E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in
this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type
that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes
from the Near East. These data are hard to reconcile
with the hypothesis of a uniform spread of a single
Near Eastern gene pool into southeastern Europe. On the
other hand, they might be consistent with either a smallscale
leapfrog migration from Anatolia into southeastern
Europe at the beginning of the Neolithic or with an expansion
of indigenous people in southeastern Europe in
response to the arrival of the Neolithic cultural package<<
December 7th, 2007 at 2:40 pm. Permalink.
Graham’s paper:
you intentionally omit to mention is that he clearly states in the 2nd paragraph:
>>The factor in common to the distribution of the sickle cell gene is therefore malaria and not African ancestry.<<
NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY !!!!
December 7th, 2007 at 2:41 pm. Permalink.
Finally as for E-M78, and specifically alpha cluster which is found in Greece.
Cruciani (”Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b…..” 2004) clarifies:
>>the clinal frequency distribution of E-M78a
within Europe testifies to important dispersal(s), most
likely Neolithic or post-Neolithic. These took place from
the Balkans, where the highest frequencies are observed,
in all directions, as far as Iberia to the west and, most
likely, also to Turkey to the southeast. Thus, it appears
that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup
E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in
this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type
that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes
from the Near East. These data are hard to reconcile
with the hypothesis of a uniform spread of a single
Near Eastern gene pool into southeastern Europe. On the
other hand, they might be consistent with either a smallscale
leapfrog migration from Anatolia into southeastern
Europe at the beginning of the Neolithic or with an expansion
of indigenous people in southeastern Europe in
response to the arrival of the Neolithic cultural package<<
December 7th, 2007 at 2:42 pm. Permalink.
Conclusions:
a) Sickle Cell IS NOT related to ancestry !!!
b) the paper (Loukopoulos) you’ve rediculously used to claim ancient Hellenes speaks of LAST MILLENIUM
c) E-M78 ALPHA CLUSTER is either a local or Anatolian imported during the NEOLITHIC cluster.
PS: try to understand that your pathetic display of petty provocations through the distortion of my screen name only adds to your ridicule.
December 7th, 2007 at 2:42 pm. Permalink.
Jeff
Thanks for the article, indeed an interesting read.
But the issue isn’t where we came from since the author isn’t interested in indicating that modern man (in general) did first come out of Africa, but as the title indicates he’s clearly attempting to plagiarize a history and the achievements of people he has no relation to what so ever. Hence why he intentionally avoided such an accurate generalization and made the specific reference to ancient Greeks.
IF however this article was based on well researched facts, I would be the first to revise my views, but to the contrary, I see selective quotations, distorted facts and an author’s attitude which is anything but that which would apply to someone confident in his thesis.
In short our garrulous friend just got owned.
December 10th, 2007 at 8:33 pm. Permalink.
Ignoramus Howls: “a) Sickle Cell IS NOT related to ancestry !!!”
Geneticists Answer: “The Benin haplotype (which originates from Nigeria, West Africa) accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, and South West Saudi Arabia, suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations. Per:Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, The Geography Of Sickle Cell Disease:Opportunities For Understanding Its DiversityRSITY: http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/143/rev9239.html”
Jahdey comments: “This Ignoramus Ophesus reminds me of a semi-illiterate dude who seizes onto his mistaken interpretation of sophisticated literature to delude his mind further with wild miscomprehension. So now Mr. Ignoramus has deduced from his own mis-reading of Dr. Graham’s article that sickle cell gene is not genetically transferred. He appears to claim that malaria is the cause of sickle cell. Mr. Ignoramus, sickle cell gene is ancestral ofcourse. You cannot get sickle cell genes if your ancestors never passed them on to you. Go read more about sickle cell genes. Fool!”
Ignoramus wails: “b) the paper (Loukopoulos) you’ve rediculously used to claim ancient Hellenes speaks of LAST MILLENIUM”
Real scientists answer: “Nigeria, west Africa appears the most logical origin of the sickle mutation in Greece evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms (1991). It has been conclusively demonstrated that HbS in Greece is mostly haplotype #19 (the one that originated in Benin, Nigeria West Africa). See, Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas P.; The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Unit for Prenatal Diagnosis, Laikon Hospital, Athens, Greece.”
Ignoramus exposes his inanity:
“c) E-M78 ALPHA CLUSTER is either a local or Anatolian imported during the NEOLITHIC cluster (sic).”
Real scientists say that : “High-resolution Y-chromosome haplotyping and particular microsatellite associations reveal … an East Africa homeland for E-M78.Origin. See Ornella Semino, Chiara Magri, et al “Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory Events in the Mediterranean Area” http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g.....d=15069642”
Neolithic age means stone age. Thus E-M78 indicates that stone age Greeks were already carrying African genes 14 KYA and within the last 5,000 years African sickle cell genes from Nigeria were also in Greece.
Ophesus Ignoramus just gave himself away. I could not be more embarrased for him. He is semi-illiterate. And the little he is able to read, he miscomprehends. He also keeps spelling “rediculous”…the right spelling is “ridiculous” — illiterate ignoramus.
Jahdey
December 11th, 2007 at 6:30 am. Permalink.
I see that communication with a victim of his own inferiority complexes is impossible, since he’s developed a readiding disability !!!
HAVE YOU COMPREHENDED THE TEXTS YOU QUOTE AND IF YOU WILL CLAIM TO, HOW CAN YOU IGNORE THAT:
Graham, “The Geography of Sickle Cell Disease: Opportunities for Understanding its Diversity” states:
Studies of the structure of DNA surrounding the beta globin locus reveal that the sickle cell gene is associated with several DNA structures PROBABLY REPRESENTING DIFFERENT ANCESTRAL POPULATIONS. The most likely interpretation is that the sickle cell mutation IS A RELATIVELY RECENT OCCURRENCE THAT HAS OCCURRED INDEPENDENTLY IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT POPULATIONS. Falciparum malaria then acted as a selective factor, increasing the prevalence of the gene because people inheriting the sickle cell gene from one parent and a gene for normal adult hemoglobin from the other parent (sickle cell trait) were less likely to die from malaria and so more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Over the generations, the sickle cell trait has therefore reached high frequencies in malarious areas. THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY.
notes:
a) PROBABLY REPRESENTING DIFFERENT ANCESTRAL POPULATIONS.
b) A RELATIVELY RECENT OCCURRENCE THAT HAS OCCURRED INDEPENDENTLY IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT POPULATIONS.
c) THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY.
http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/html/toc143.html
December 11th, 2007 at 8:50 am. Permalink.
and the intellectual midget continues to DISTORT…
The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms.
Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas P.
suggest that the beta S MUTATION WAS INTRODUCED INTO GREECE OVER THE LAST FEW CENTURIES by the Saracen raids and/or by settlements of North African slaves brought in by the Arabs, Franks, Venetians, or Ottoman Turks, who have occupied the country OVER THE LAST MILLENNIUM.
and the link which you dreaded to present:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/si.....med_docsum
So oh shinning light of knowledge that will drive us out of this endless tunnel of intellectual darkness.. do explain HOW the distribution during THE LAST FEW CENTURIES supports your outrageous claim on ANCIENT HELLENES?
December 11th, 2007 at 9:04 am. Permalink.
Sickle Cell Antiquity in Europe
Respecting the age of this haplotype 19 in Southern Europe:
“The lack of haplotype diversity associated with most of the malaria resistance mutations (”HBS”) found in modern Mediterranean populations suggests that they have evolved within the last few thousand years.” See:
G O Tadmouri, N Garguier, J Demont, P Perrin, and A N Başak, ‘History and origin of β-thalassaemia in Turkey: sequence haplotype diversity of β-globin genes’, Human Biology, 2001, 73: 661–74; L Zahed, J Demont, R Bouhass, G Trabuchet, C Hänni, et al., ‘Origin and history of the IVS-I-110 and codon-39 β-thalassemia mutations in the Lebanese population’, Human Biology, 2002, 74: 837–47; S A Tishkoff, R Varkonyi, N Cahinhinan, S Abbes, G Argyropoulos, et al. ‘Haplotype diversity and linkage disequilibrium at human G6PD: recent origin of alleles that confer malarial resistance’, Science, 2001, 293: 455–62; L Luzzatto and R Notaro, ‘Malaria: protecting against bad air’, Science, 2001, 293: 442–3; P C Sabeti, D E Reich, J M Higgins, H Levine, D Richter, et al. ‘Detecting recent positive selection in the human genome from haplotype structure’, Nature, 2002, 419: 832–7.
Learn!!! Read some more at: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g…..47919#fn54
We also used the research of other eminent authorities such as Dr. Seargeant to establish the fact that by the time of historical antiquity the gene was well established in southern Europe. Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, The Geography Of Sickle Cell Disease:Opportunities For Understanding Its DiversityRSITY: http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/143/rev9239.html
Other support for the age of HBS in Europe can be deduced by validating the age of the malaria parasite in Europe since sickle cell is a mutation that occurs in response to endemic malaria. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4587311.stm
It is well established that malaria was in Europe way back 6,000 years ago. See The History of Malaria: http://www.museums.org.za/bio/…..alaria.htm
The Greek medical authority Hippocratis described malaria as an affliction in his medical text which have been dated to the 6th and 5th century BC. See http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g…..tid=547919
If malaria is at least 5000 years in Europe, and sickle cell is a mutation that occurs in response to malaria pandemia, then one can presume that there must have been sickle cell mutations in Southern Europe as early as 5,000 years ago. Right?
How old is ancient Greece? All calculations establish that the Greeks became prominent in ancient history about 3,000 years ago.
Who were those ancient Greeks? They were human beings who had in their genetic makeup, the HBS gene that protected against malaria.
What is that gene specifically speaking? The gene found in Greece and the Greeks present a Nigerian origin since the Haplotype 19 is originated in Nigeria.
December 11th, 2007 at 9:16 am. Permalink.
E-M78
What your of limited comprehension mind fails to conceive is that the text which you yourself have quoted:
“typical of Hg E-M78 (Cruciani et al. 2004 [in this issue]; present study)”
Indicates that she’s (Seminio) citing Cruciani’s 2004 paper titled:
“Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa”
in which we read:
“the clinal frequency distribution of E-M78a within Europe testifies to important dispersal(s), most
likely Neolithic or post-Neolithic. These took place FROM THE BALKANS, where the highest frequencies are observed,
in all directions, as far as Iberia to the west and, most
likely, also to Turkey to the southeast.
Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly CONTRIBUTED BY A NEW MOLECULAR TYPE THAT DISTINGUISHES IT FROM THE ABORIGINAL E3B CHROMOSOMES FROM THE NEAR EAST. These data are hard to reconcile with the hypothesis of a uniform spread of a single Near Eastern gene pool into southeastern Europe. On the
other hand, they might be consistent with either a smallscale leapfrog migration from Anatolia into southeastern Europe at the beginning of the Neolithic or with an expansion of indigenous people in southeastern Europe in
response to the arrival of the Neolithic cultural package.”
http://www.greekdnaproject.net.....oject.html
I’d suggest you leave your inferiority complex aside and try to comprehend the statement:
“A NEW MOLECULAR TYPE THAT DISTINGUISHES IT FROM THE ABORIGINAL E3B CHROMOSOMES FROM THE NEAR EAST.”
ABORIGINAL E3B CHROMOSOMES FROM THE NEAR EAST
NOT AFRICA
simply because the subclade titled ALPHA cluster is a division that arose NOT in Africa but in the Near East and Anatolia.
December 11th, 2007 at 9:40 am. Permalink.
Because HBS is a clear genetic footprint of African ancestors, some have tried to misrepresent the putative period when this genetic footprint entered Europe.
That it was in ancient Europe is no longer in doubt having been confirmed by DNA analysis of a skeleton discovered near Rome. The skeletal evidence was dated some 2100 years ago. By this date, HBS was established…read established in Rome suggesting that it came into Southern Europe at a much earlier period.
In light of the evidence and sources shown below, any suggestion that HBS is about 1000 years old in Europe should now be abandoned.
“The sickle-cell trait was also present (in the ancient Mediterranean world) by Roman times. The skeleton of an approximately twenty-year-old man with porotic hyperostosis was excavated on the island of Failaka in the Persian Gulf. The bones were radiocarbon dated to 2130 ± 80 BP. Scanning-electron microscopy of the bones directly revealed fossilized erythrocytes with the characteristic sickle shape.60
Research in experimental archaeology has confirmed that it is possible for human red blood cells to leave a recognizable print on archaeological materials.61 Today haemoglobin S occurs with a frequency of about 2 per cent in some Mediterranean populations. Haplotype analysis has demonstrated that the sickle-cell trait in Sicily, northern Greece, and western Arabia is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype in western central Africa.62 This constitutes direct evidence for gene flow linked to human migration from central Africa to Mediterranean Europe in historical times.”
60 G Maat and M Baig, ‘Scanning electron microscopy of fossilized sickle-cells’, Int. J. Anthropol., 1990, 5: 271–6; G Maat, ‘Bone preservation, decay and its related conditions in ancient human bones from Kuwait’, Int. J. Osteoarchaeol., 1993, 3: 77–86.
61 P Hortolà, ‘Red blood cell haemotaphonomy of experimental human bloodstains on techno-prehistoric lithic raw materials’, J. Archaeol. Sci., 2002, 29: 733–9.
62 A Ragusa, M Lombardo, G Sortino, T Lombardo, R L Nagel, and D Labie, ‘βS gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: implications for gene flow’, Am. J. Hematol., 1988, 27: 139–41.
See further: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g.....tid=547919
Ignoramus, are you beginning to comprehend? We have the time to teach you and we will gladly oblige your unfortunate hubris.
Glad to have helped
Jahdey
December 11th, 2007 at 9:44 am. Permalink.
Ignoramus continues his rants:
“the clinal frequency distribution of E-M78a within Europe testifies to important dispersal(s), most
likely Neolithic or post-Neolithic.”
Jahdey corrects the fool: E-M78 which originally arises out of East Africa has several clusters including Alpha.
But Ignoramus has ignorantly missed the point as usual. E-M78 per se comes directly out of Africa. When it got to Mediterranean and Black sea region, another polymorphic event (read - mutation) gave rise to the Alpha cluster of E-M78. But E-M78 as any fresh student of genetics can confirm arises out of East Africa.
My Ignoramus friend has exhausted his vitupretation. He started out by denying African ancient Greek blood lines. Now he is reduced to qualifying African ancient Greek bloodlines…sometimes by suggesting that such blood lines began only 300 year ago which is too near to be antiquity, or that it occurred in antiquity which is too old for modern times.
When a man is plagued by a gaping sense of personal inadequacy, he resorts to such boorishness.
Run away…fool. Mr. Ignoramus, people like you die from the pollution of falsehood.
Jahdey
December 11th, 2007 at 9:56 am. Permalink.
Orphic Hymn,
Thanks for the timely response, which made your position more lucid.
Jahdey,
I’m puzzled, as to why you don’t take much satisfaction, in the knowledge that Africans are the parents of us all.
December 11th, 2007 at 7:30 pm. Permalink.
Why do you feel the need to try and connect Nigerian and Greek history? Nigeria has a great past in its own merit. Everyone knows that all humans are related if you go back far enough.
December 11th, 2007 at 9:32 pm. Permalink.
Jeff and Abubakar
Don’t be suprised my friends, the reason is evident… He’s a victim of his own inferiority complex.
Children like our friend lack pride in any of the true achivements of their own people (and in this case more than a few), they rediculously feel that they are inadequate, so to deal with their complex.. they resort to distorting papers, selective quotations and when confronted for this, resort to pathetic insults..
I’ve seen this in Turks (commonly among hot-head uneducated nationalists), Nordicists, so-called “white-nationalists”..etc. All those who need to feed their humbled ego resort to the same tactics.
December 12th, 2007 at 2:52 am. Permalink.
Quote as many papers as you like, I’ll simply requote the paper you originally claimed to have cited (DISTORTED actually) and thus accept as accurate. Graham, “The Geography of Sickle Cell Disease: Opportunities for Understanding its Diversity” states:
“THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY”
end of story.
E-M78
So after distorting texts and screen names, you now resort to distortning my own words..Child you fail to see, that unlike you I have no complexes about who I am, what I personally or my ancestors have achieved .. its YOU that resorts to pathetic distortions of texts and instead of expressing an apology to those you claim to represent for your stupidity.. continue celebrating it driven by your complexes.
E-M78 originates in Africa some 23ky ago.. BUT the alpha cluster DOES NOT it originates in the Balkans or Anatolia some 7-14ky ago.. hence why its non-existant in Africa where gamma and delta clusters are predominant.
see Cruciani already cited.
Now do you intend to address my original questions of WHY you’ve distorted texts ?
December 12th, 2007 at 2:52 am. Permalink.
Ophesus Ignoramus whines: “Quote as many papers as you like, I’ll simply requote the paper you originally claimed to have cited (DISTORTED actually) and thus accept as accurate.”
Translated this means: “I Ophesus, am duh Ignoramus. Unable to deal with detailed validated scientific research; unable to read scientific papers and evidence, unable to synthesize disparate facts.”
You are now arguing with the numerous scientists who have written those papers and drawn their conclusion. You are nolonger refuting Jahdey, but crying over the fact that there are so many more scientific report on this subject that there can no longer be doubts about the authenticity of the thesis.
Most pathetically, you have been unable to cite one peer reviewed paper to counter the endless stream of scientific evidence that has been presented. This again shows us the limits of your “scholarship” my dear ignorant friend.
You may keep repeating yourself over and over again; keep dodging addressing the plethora of scientific evidence against your racist presumptions; but you are no impressing anyone with your spamming. It is not advisable to take on your intellectual superiors because you will be instantly demolished by the repeletion and pularity of cogent evidence…some of which are evidently over your head.
Our thesis again states that:
Haplotype analysis has demonstrated that the sickle-cell trait in Sicily, northern Greece, and western Arabia is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype in western central Africa. This constitutes direct evidence for gene flow linked to human migration from central Africa to Mediterranean Europe in historical times.” — A Ragusa, M Lombardo, G Sortino, T Lombardo, R L Nagel, and D Labie, ‘βS gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: implications for gene flow’, Am. J. Hematol., 1988, 27: 139–41.
Read this:
http://www.africaresource.com/.....e-winters/
Just cite one, one peer reviewed paper that disproves the thesis of the article:
(a)that ancient Greeks have HBS genes from Nigeria; Haplogroup 19.
(b)that ancient Greeks also carry genetic material originating from Ethiopia;
(c)that haplogroup A, and E-M78, are absent on the Agean Islands and as such in Greeks.
If you are unable to cite one scientific paper to counter my arguments or to support your own, then you remain the illiterate that you will always be.
Simply restricting yourself to cutting and pasting out of context quotes from papers I have already directed you to go read presents you as a mischeivious inadequate racist that is seeking to deny African people their ancient achievement; or you are just one huge irremediably damaged semi-illiterate. Do more independent research to show us how “superior in complex” that you are you little wretch. Show us a bit of your intellectual brilliance. Cite some peer reviewed papers!
Your Teacher
Jahdey
PS: Ignoramus, ridiculous is spelt with an “i” not an “e”…you keep defacing this website with your bad grammar and spelling (rediculous). One more bad spelling and you will be fined. :-))
December 12th, 2007 at 9:04 am. Permalink.
Respecting the age of this HBS haplotype 19 in Southern Europe including Greece:
“The lack of haplotype diversity associated with most of the malaria resistance mutations (”HBS”) found in modern Mediterranean populations suggests that they have evolved within the last few thousand years.” See:
G O Tadmouri, N Garguier, J Demont, P Perrin, and A N Başak, ‘History and origin of β-thalassaemia in Turkey: sequence haplotype diversity of β-globin genes’, Human Biology, 2001, 73: 661–74; L Zahed, J Demont, R Bouhass, G Trabuchet, C Hänni, et al., ‘Origin and history of the IVS-I-110 and codon-39 β-thalassemia mutations in the Lebanese population’, Human Biology, 2002, 74: 837–47; S A Tishkoff, R Varkonyi, N Cahinhinan, S Abbes, G Argyropoulos, et al. ‘Haplotype diversity and linkage disequilibrium at human G6PD: recent origin of alleles that confer malarial resistance’, Science, 2001, 293: 455–62; L Luzzatto and R Notaro, ‘Malaria: protecting against bad air’, Science, 2001, 293: 442–3; P C Sabeti, D E Reich, J M Higgins, H Levine, D Richter, et al. ‘Detecting recent positive selection in the human genome from haplotype structure’, Nature, 2002, 419: 832–7.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:06 am. Permalink.
Jeff
Africans have grown too sophisticated to be patronized. Thanks for your attempts.
Jahdey
December 12th, 2007 at 9:07 am. Permalink.
Abubakar
When you grow up, seek out the work of the father of African studies in German Universities Leo Frobenius, and it will explain to you the connections between Nigeria and Greece.
I was not the first, nor will I be the last to posit such a claim and back it up with textual and genetic evidence. Just go carefully through the list of reference sources I have set out and make a call for yourself. Whether you agree with me or not is not my objective. My objective is to get you to read further, ask questions, do your own analysis, and then synthesize the information. Added two and two together…your conscience and cognisance will do the rest.
Jahdey
December 12th, 2007 at 9:11 am. Permalink.
Sorry child but the only ignorant fool here is you. The irony is that you’re stuck on a spelling mistake when you can’t even spell my screen name correctly!!! Then again this coud be nothing more than further celebration of your inferiority complex in your strife to avoid addressing the original questions.
Does or does not the paper YOU cited by Graham clearly state that the distribution of sickle cell has NOTHING to do with ancestry.. simple yes or no ?
Does the Loukopoulos paper state that the distribution took place during the last millenium while you cite it as proof for your claims on antiquity? again a simple yes or no will do
Does the paper of your choice suggest that alpha cluster is either a Balkan or Anatolian marker?
The answer to all the above is YES.
So as already indicated your so-called “scholarship” is as worthless as your claims are. Nothing more than intentional distortion of papers in your strife to feed your humbled ego.
PS: so you resort to threats of banning since you can’t handle being exposed.. nice.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:52 am. Permalink.
Ophesus Ignoramus
“Only a fool leaneth upon his own misunderstanding.”
A study by Di Giacomo et al. in 2003 found the following African haplogroups in Greeks: Haplogroup A which is highly specific to West Africa, R1a, DE, and J2*(xDYS413= 18)J*(xJ2). R1* which probably gave rise to R1a is found in Northern Cameroon. DE is found principally among Nigerians and it is suspected that it originated from Nigeria. J is very prominent in East, and North Africa.
Again I urge you:
Just cite one, one peer reviewed paper that disproves the thesis of the article:
(a)that ancient Greeks have HBS genes from Nigeria; Haplogroup 19.
(b)that ancient Greeks also carry genetic material originating from Ethiopia;
(c)that haplogroup A, and E-M78, are absent on the Agean Islands and as such in Greeks.
If you are unable to cite one scientific paper to counter my arguments or to support your own, then you remain the illiterate that you will always be.
Simply restricting yourself to cutting and pasting out of context quotes from papers I have already directed you to go read presents you as a mischeivious inadequate racist that is seeking to deny African people their ancient achievement; or you are just one huge irremediably damaged semi-illiterate. Do more independent research to show us how “superior in complex” that you are you little wretch. Show us a bit of your intellectual brilliance. Cite some peer reviewed papers!
Your Teacher
Jahdey
PS: Ignoramus, ridiculous is spelt with an “i” not an “e”…you keep defacing this website with your bad grammar and spelling (rediculous). One more bad spelling and you will be fined. :-))
Ignoramus whines:…. so you resort to threats of banning since you can’t handle being exposed.. nice.
Jahdey replies: Ignoramus, fining is not banning. We threatened to fine you for your bad grammar and spelling. Not ban you. Again you demonstrate some symptoms of either myopia, dyslexia, or just plain old semi illiteracy. You must brush up on your reading and writing. :-))
December 13th, 2007 at 6:52 am. Permalink.
I see your inferiority complex turned this into a debate on genetics since you simply dread to respond to the simple question of WHY YOU INTENTIONALLY DISTORTED THE CONTEXT OF THE ORIGINAL PAPERS YOU CLAIM TO HAVE CITED ?
Child, you simply fail to see that THAT is the issue, the INTENTIONAL DISTORTION.
You dare speak of copy/pastes when its you that parrtots the trash posted by Anu Mauro.. Who allegedly quotes Di Giacomo “Clinal patterns of human Y chromosomal diversity
in continental Italy and Greece are dominated by drift and founder effects”.. but its obvioius that the he just like you is driven by the same inferiority complex..
a) as already clarified in YOUR OWN choice of a source, Graham:
THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY
December 13th, 2007 at 10:12 pm. Permalink.
b) name them.
c) Had the inferiority complexed child actually read the above mentioned paper of Di Giacomo he would have known that under chapt. “3.1. Hg frequency distribution in Italy and Greece” it is clarified that:
“Only a single Hg A individual was found, a findingwhich is in agreement with its rare occurrence outside Africa (Scozzari et al., 2001; Underhill et al.,2000).”
ONLY A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL!!!
December 13th, 2007 at 10:12 pm. Permalink.
As for E-M78, while already explained above (sources already cited) lets ignore the obvious facts and take your point of view as correct.
How the hell do you justify your claims on a people, their history and accomplishments when its distribution originally takes place in two episodes between 23.9-17.3 ky and 18.0-5.9 ky ago (see Cruciani 2006 “Tracing Past Human Male Movements………”) when you yourself claim a much more recent age for the Greeks (see above..3000yrs) ?
But since Cuciani and Seminio aren’t enough to satisfy your complexes.. you may find a list of papers here which all support the following thesis:
Y-DNA haplogroup J evolved in the ancient Near East and was carried into North Africa, Europe, Central Asia, Pakistan and India. J2 lineages originated in the area known as the Fertile Crescent.
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ07.html
December 13th, 2007 at 10:13 pm. Permalink.
Finally a couple of notes on the trash claims you copy/pasted from Anu Mauro’s article in relation to the paper byDi Giacomo:
R1a is NOT African but originates in the region of Ukraine some 10-15.000yrs ago.
see: National Geographic: The Genographic Project
R is NOT African but its mutation takes place in C.Asia
(same source as above)
DE indifferent of origin, in contrast to what is claimed.. is actually found in VERY LOW FREQUENCIES IN NIGERIA
http://www.chemeurope.com/lexi.....28Y-DNA%29
December 13th, 2007 at 10:13 pm. Permalink.
So do you intend to ever respond to the simple question of WHY you resorted to DISTORTING the papers you claim to have cited ?
December 13th, 2007 at 10:15 pm. Permalink.
Ignoramus had bodly barked on Dec 6th : “…I’d suggest that the author and his followers find pride in who they are, their culture and their ancestor’s true achievments and forget about such rediculous claims which are nothing more than a celebration of some inferiority complex.”
As such he suggested that we were making wild unsubstantiated claims and fantasizing over Nigerians being related to ancient the Greeks. We had presented two prominent genes found in Nigerians and Greeks HBS Haplogroup 19 and Y-DNA E-M78.
On Dec 13th after much roasting on this site he rolls over and whines: “As for E-M78, ……… take your point of view as correct.”
If my point of view is correct then what is your grudge o jealousy one!
Thus as of this date, there will be no more bold disclaimer from this racist ignorant dog that Greeks are not connected to Nigerians by blood because it got crushed by the wieght of our scientific authorities.
As of this date, he is still unable to demonstrate that HBS 19 is not from Nigeria. Infact he does not dare mention HBS 19 anymore. Having gone to re-read Graham Seageant he now understands that the presence of Haplogroup 19 in Greeks is indicative of a connection in historical times between Greeks and Nigerians.
He is now reduced to making unfounded qualification about whether the blood connection occurred 10,00 years ago or 300 years back.
Well I will let you figure that out yourself racist dog. Idiots like you have for the past 200 years attempted to appropriate African history as yours, and always qualified African genetic footprints by making false claims about slavery being the route of the demic diffusion.
But again, we have reduced you now to arguing whether the genetic markers of blood connection were in sufficient quantity or not. Yet the crucial point is made. There is indeed evidence of historical blood genetic connections between Greeks and Nigerians.
Having been thrashed and trashed, by evidence of genetics science, his frustration and fear become obvious as he now wants to deny his original ignorant brag respecting historical mis-appropriation by ignorantly declaring: “I see your inferiority complex turned this into a debate on genetics since you simply dread to respond to the simple question of WHY YOU INTENTIONALLY DISTORTED THE CONTEXT OF THE ORIGINAL PAPERS YOU CLAIM TO HAVE CITED ?” Translated it means: “Help! Am I looking like a fool due to the clarity of the peer reviewed genetic authorities that Jahdey is citing? Whatz genetics got to do with blood? I am ignorant of a sound response so let me fling abusive words and move away from original my false and ignorant claim.”
Ignoramus’ Pathetic Attempt at Genetic Science:
According to the Ignoramus, he claims that: “DE indifferent of origin, in contrast to what is claimed.. is actually found in VERY LOW FREQUENCIES IN NIGERIA”
Yes DE is found in Nigeria according to this Ignorant horse’s mouth. DiaGiancomo tells you that DE also occurs in Greeks. Point made.
Further, why should you be indifferent to origin? You have to answer the origin query. If Nigeria is not the most probably origin of DE, then name the country you posit? Or name the country where it presents a higher prevalence.
Nonetheless, it is now beyond doubt, even if grudgingly accepted by this lower class animal called Ignoramus, that HBS 19 is from Nigeria and it occured in ancient Greeks as well as ancient Egyptians. Point made.
Ignoramus has admitted that DE does occur in Nigeria (whatever the quantity) and it also occurs in Greece. Point made.
Ignoramus has also owned up to the fact that A occurs in Nigeria (whatever the quality) and does occur in Greece. Point made.
What more proof of historical blood and genetic connection between ancient Greeks and ancient Nigerians do you ask for?
Ignoramus recall your loud chatter on Dec 6th boldly declaring that any claims of blood connection between Nigerians and Greeks were fantasy.
Now who is looking like a foolish racist dog?
Genetic science does not lie!
Only a fool leaneth upon his own misunderstanding.
Jahdey
PS: The endless bad grammar… Ignoramus, did you actually take my advise on brushing up on your spelling and syntatical errors? OK use your spell checker, ok?
December 14th, 2007 at 6:34 am. Permalink.
Ignoramus “whines”: “THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY”
Scientists Reply:
There have been four independent polymorphic events that gave rise to the four different strands of HBS DNA that exist on earth. They are classified by scientists as follows: Benin (Nigeria), Senegal, Bantu, and Asian HBS haplogroup. The theory is that since the DNA structures of these mutations are different, the only factor common to them all is malaria not ancestry. Each haplogroup that arose in those different places denotes a different ancestry from the other.
Due to the differences in the DNA structures of those haplogroups, it is possible to accurately trace descendants. Thus those who carry the Benin HBS can positively be identified by their DNA structure and differentiated from those who carry the Asian, or the Bantu HBS. But once your haplogroup is positively confirmed, it does indicate your genetic ancestry and conclusively proves historical connections between peoples and places.
Italians, Sicilians, Greeks, Spaniards and Portugese all have the sickle gene from Benin, Nigeria Africa. That proves their ancestral blood connections. It also proves that they did not get their HBS from Asia, as the Asian HBs genes are different than Nigeria’s. It proves they did not get it from Senegal, or Southern African DNA material because they positively carry the Nigerian haplogroup.
That is what is meant in the quotation you have misconstrued. It does not support your foolish assertion that the genetic material found in Greeks does not indicate Nigerian ancestry…on the contrary it tells you most emphatically that Greeks carry Nigerian genetic material in their blood which was introduced in historical times.
According to Dr. Segearnt:
The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily,4 Northern Greece,10 Southern Turkey,11 and South West Saudi Arabia,6,7 suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations.
Now read Dr G. Segearnt’s work:
THE GEOGRAPHY OF SICKLE CELL DISEASE:
OPPORTUNITIES FOR UNDERSTANDING ITS DIVERSITY
Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP
The sickle cell gene is now known to be widespread, reaching its highest incidence in equatorial Africa, but occurring also in parts of Sicily and Southern Italy, Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, especially the Eastern Province, and much of Central India (Figure 1). This distribution is determined by the occurrence of the sickle cell mutation and its selection by falciparum malaria.
Studies of the structure of DNA surrounding the beta globin locus reveal that the sickle cell gene is associated with several DNA structures probably representing different ancestral populations. The most likely interpretation is that the sickle cell mutation is a relatively recent occurrence that has occurred independently in several different populations. Falciparum malaria then acted as a selective factor, increasing the prevalence of the gene because people inheriting the sickle cell gene from one parent and a gene for normal adult hemoglobin from the other parent (sickle cell trait) were less likely to die from malaria and so more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Over the generations, the sickle cell trait has therefore reached high frequencies in malarious areas. The factor in common to the distribution of the sickle cell gene is therefore malaria and not African ancestry.
The different DNA structures associated with the sickle cell gene are identified by a pattern of restriction enzyme sites, the so-called globin haplotypes,1-3 which are assumed to represent independent occurrences of the sickle cell mutation and are named after the places where first described (Figure 2).
The Senegal haplotype occurs on the Atlantic coast of West Africa, the Benin haplotype in central West Africa, especially Ghana, Nigeria, and Côte d’Ivoire, and the Bantu or Central African Republic haplotype in Zaire, the Central African Republic, Angola and Kenya.5 The HbS gene in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia6,7 and in Central India8 is associated with a different DNA structure not encountered in Africa and so almost certainly a fourth independent occurrence of the sickle cell mutation. It is currently uncertain whether the mutation arose in Arabia and spread to India or vice versa or possibly two independent occurrences in peoples of similar ancestral DNA structures. This fourth pattern is generally called the Asian haplotype.
From these original foci of the HbS mutation, the gene spread along trading routes to North Africa and the Mediterranean, was transported in large populations to North and South America and the Caribbean during the slave trade, and latterly has spread to Northern Europe by immigration from the Caribbean, directly from Africa to the United Kingdom, France, Belgium, and Holland, and from Turkey to Germany. The relative prevalence of these haplotypes in the Americas reflects the different origins of their African peoples, approximately 70% of HbS associated chromosomes having the Benin haplotype, 10% Senegal and 10% Bantu. Haplotype frequencies in Jamaica are similar to the USA but the Bantu haplotype accounts for the majority of HbS associated chromosomes in Brazil.9
The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily,4 Northern Greece,10 Southern Turkey,11 and South West Saudi Arabia,6,7 suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations. However, it is of interest that the Asian haplotype was first described among descendants of Indian indentured laborers in Jamaica.12 The disease now occurs against diverse genetic and environmental backgrounds, which provide experimental models for investigating the mechanisms of the clinical and hematological variability of the disease.
………………………………………………………………………
4. Ragusa A, Lombardo M, Sortino G, et al. ßs gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: implications for gene flow. Am J Hematol 1988;27:139-41.
5. Ojwang PJ, Ogada T, Beris P, et al. Haplotypes and globin gene analysis in sickle cell anaemia patients from Kenya. Br J Haematol 1987;65:211-5.
6. El-Hazmi MAF. Beta globin gene haplotypes in the Saudi sickle cell anemia patients. Human Heredity 1990;40:177-86.
7. Padmos MA, Roberts GT, Sackey K, et al. Two different forms of homozygous sickle cell disease occur in Saudi Arabia. Br J Haematology 1991;79:93-8.
8. Kulozik AE, Wainscoat JS, Serjeant GR, et al. Geographical survey of s-globin gene haplotypes: evidence for an independent Asian origin of the sickle cell mutation. Am J Hum Genet 1986;39:239-44.
9. Zago MA, Figueiredo MS, Ogo SH. Bantu s cluster haplotype predominates among Brazilian Blacks. Am J Phys Anthropol 1992;88:295-8.
10. Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas Ph. The origin of the sickle cell mutation in Greece: evidence from s globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Hemoglobins 1991;15:459-67.
December 14th, 2007 at 7:27 am. Permalink.
Not only does the child intentionally distort the papers he claims to have cited but also jumps to absurd conclusions due to his clear misunderstanding of what I have posted.
Why do you intentionally omit to quote the clear statement which reads:
“WHILE ALREADY EXPLAINED ABOVE (SOURCES ALREADY CITED) LETS IGNORE THE OBVIOUS FACTS”
and beside the intentional action of taking my words out of context, why do you again dread to respond to direct questions .. is it simply due to your ignorance or did the list of papers which indicate the ferile cresent as its place of origin add to your humiliation ??
December 14th, 2007 at 9:37 am. Permalink.
You question my reference to the timeline of distribution.. I understand that for an intellectual midget like yourself, the very notion of ethnicities such as Hellenes or Nigerians was non-existant some 18-20000 yrs ago, but unfortunately my little friend, this fact can not be erased to suit your agenda.
and the child continues and in further celebration of his complexes attempts to attribute his mentality upon others. As I already clarified, I know who I am and feel quite confident not only of the accomplishments of MY (either you like it or not) ancestors but also of my own. I have no need of feeding my humbled ego through such a pathetic display of distortions. So when you want to talk about appropriation of history and achievements, I’d sugges you take a good look in the mirror.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:38 am. Permalink.
DE, while you question my finding its origin indifferent, you stress the origin issue yet clearly avoid naming a region.. could this be because you see that the limited % (which you audaciously attempt to minimize its significance) in Nigeria excludes it as this place of origin ?
You return to HG A and claim it as an indicator.. child one individual that is as the paper states:
“a finding which is in agreement with its rare occurrence outside Africa”
is anything but enough to justify your claims.
As for what I actually said on the 6th and what your of limited comprehension mind has conceived, I’d suggest you take off your inferiority complex glasses and re-read it and then you’ll see who’s the real fool here, distorting not only papers which he claims to have cited but also the words of those who expose him.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:38 am. Permalink.
Finally.. have you not claimed to have cited Graham’s paper.. you have so why do you continue to distort its context?
“Studies of the structure of DNA surrounding the beta globin locus reveal that the sickle cell gene is associated with several DNA structures probably representing different ancestral populations. The most likely interpretation is that the sickle cell mutation is a relatively recent occurrence that has occurred independently in several different populations. Falciparum malaria then acted as a selective factor, increasing the prevalence of the gene because people inheriting the sickle cell gene from one parent and a gene for normal adult hemoglobin from the other parent (sickle cell trait) were less likely to die from malaria and so more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Over the generations, the sickle cell trait has therefore reached high frequencies in malarious areas. The factor in common to the distribution of the sickle cell gene is therefore malaria and not African ancestry.”
PS: still waiting for the responces.. if you only like demanding a responce yet dread to provide one, tell me so I’ll know that all I’m up against is your inferiority complex.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:39 am. Permalink.
The Ignorant dog continues to blatter:
“DE, while you question my finding its origin indifferent, you stress the origin issue yet clearly avoid naming a region.. could this be because you see that the limited % (which you audaciously attempt to minimize its significance) in Nigeria excludes it as this place of origin ?”
Jahdey answers:
Pathetic! Completely ignorant of genes. DE most likely originates from Nigeria or environs. I already made that clear to you. Go search the web and educate yourself. The highest incident of DE yet discovered occurs in Nigeria. In genetics we use the percentage of prevalence as an indication of origins.
The little dog continues to yelp:
“You return to HG A and claim it as an indicator.. child one individual that is as the paper states:
“a finding which is in agreement with its rare occurrence outside Africa”
is anything but enough to justify your claims.”
Jahdey answers:
O pathos, what else next? This idiot does not realize that genetic sampling is a sampling of individuals as statistical representatives of the percentage of likely incidence of a haplogroup.
When the paper says one person was found with A, what it means is that out of the sample group, one person was found with the gene. Thus, any statistical extrapolation made on the basis of that number must account for the size of the sample group as a whole. Thus, if the scientists sampled 10 persons and only one is found with the gene then the percentage for the entire nation would be 10%.
I knew that that one would go completely over your head as well, but then what does one expect from a lower class white trash?
Ignoramus yelps:
“As for what I actually said on the 6th and what your of limited comprehension mind has conceived, I’d suggest you take off your inferiority complex glasses and re-read it and then you’ll see who’s the real fool here, distorting not only papers which he claims to have cited but also the words of those who expose him.”
Jahdey answers:
What you said on Dec 6th 2007 was clear to the world. Don”t even attempt to backtrack! You declared that Nigerians and Greeks had no blood connect and that we were fantasizing. Now we see who has the racist fantasies. Who is looking like an idiotic hog, who is?
Ignoramus finally whimpers:
“Finally.. have you not claimed to have cited Graham’s paper.. you have so why do you continue to distort its context?”
Jahdey replies:
Graham clearly stated in his paper that the origin of the HBS in Greeks, Italians, Turks etc is from Nigeria. Your little twisted racist mind cannot comprehend this. Why? Are you in denial?
According to Graham’s unedited quotation (and I copied and posted virtually the entire article for your little dog mind to read earlier):
“The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily,4 Northern Greece,10 Southern Turkey,11 and South West Saudi Arabia,6,7 suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations.”
Indisputably, ancient Greeks had genetic connection with Nigerians. Many citizens of the Greek city states originated from Nigeria.
Now, where did you say your ancestors were from again, o barbarian? Who is looking like a racist liar..and a fool, and a distorter of scientific articles???
If ancient Greeks did not carry genes from Africa, show us that they are exclusively connected with your ancestors from the Steppes. But, if ancient Greeks did carry African genes as demonstrated by all the genetic research papers that I cited, then hush your stink and go develop your ignorant mind with more studies so you don”t make such a fool of yourself next time.
Fools die from want of wisdom!
Your Teacher and Master
Jahdey
December 14th, 2007 at 2:51 pm. Permalink.
Copm ‘on inferiority complexed fool, stop deleting my posts and contradict the fact that :
a) Haplogroup DE, is found in LIMITED % in male populations of Nigeria which proves your claim to be another malicious distortion and that its a LATER MUTATION introduced INTO the regions’ population.
b) cite a single paper which has also noted the existance of HG A other than that of Di Giacomo
c) prove that Graham’s paper links the distribution of Sickle Cell to ancestry and not to malaria.
d) the celebration of your rediculous claims of populations from Nigeria existing in the Hellenic polis.
In short prove that you do not distort the papers you claim to cite in a celebration of your inferiority complex and that the title “master” which you’ve rediculously given to your self nothing but a remnant of your resentment of your true history….
December 18th, 2007 at 4:19 pm. Permalink.
Ignoramus yelps: “a) Haplogroup DE, is found in LIMITED % in male populations of Nigeria which proves your claim to be another malicious distortion and that its a LATER MUTATION introduced INTO the regions’ population.”
Real Scientists Answer:
“…DE molecular ancestors first evolved inside Africa and subsequently contributed as Y chromosome founders to pioneering migrations….” See Peter A. Underhill , Toomas Kivisild, “Use of Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Population Structure in Tracing Human Migrations,” Annual Review of Genetics, Vol. 41: 539-564 (Volume publication date December 2007)
Additionally, Michael E. Weale et al in “Rare Deep-Rooting Y Chromosome lineages in Humans: Lessons for Phylogeography, genetics 165: 229-234 (September 2003) demonstrate the original connection between Nigeria and Haplogroup DE.
Ignoramus yaps: “b) cite a single paper which has also noted the existance of HG A other than that of Di Giacomo”
Real scientists answer:
For more information on the African origin of Haplogroup A see the following article on BBC world News @
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6293333.stm
Ignoramus begs: “c) prove that Graham’s paper links the distribution of Sickle Cell to ancestry and not to malaria.”
Real scientist answer:
According to Dr. Graham Segearnt:
“The Senegal haplotype occurs on the Atlantic coast of West Africa, the Benin haplotype in central West Africa, especially Ghana, Nigeria, and Côte d’Ivoire, and the Bantu or Central African Republic haplotype in Zaire, the Central African Republic, Angola and Kenya…”
“From these original foci of the HbS mutation, the gene spread along trading routes to North Africa and the Mediterranean, was transported in large populations to North and South America and the Caribbean”
“The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily, Northern Greece, Southern Turkey … suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa.
See Dr. Graham Segearnt’s article above.
See also for more reading:
Ragusa A, Lombardo M, Sortino G, et al. ßs gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: implications for gene flow. Am J Hematol 1988;27:139-41.
El-Hazmi MAF. Beta globin gene haplotypes in the Saudi sickle cell anemia patients. Human Heredity 1990;40:177-86.
Padmos MA, Roberts GT, Sackey K, et al. Two different forms of homozygous sickle cell disease occur in Saudi Arabia. Br J Haematology 1991;79:93-8.
Zago MA, Figueiredo MS, Ogo SH. Bantu Hbs cluster haplotype predominates among Brazilian Blacks. Am J Phys Anthropol 1992;88:295-8.
Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas Ph. The origin of the sickle cell mutation in Greece: evidence from Hbs globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Hemoglobins 1991;15:459-67.
PS: Your time is up Ignoramus. We have given you many chances to say something, yet, you have not said anything new in the past eight posts of yours. You are simply repeating yourself and refusing to read. You have become a boring distraction by demonstrating your maniacal need for attention. Go away trolling fool…go play with some racist ignoramus like yourself on networks like…well you know.
Your Master
Jahdey
December 18th, 2007 at 9:16 pm. Permalink.
How Do People Get Sickle Cell Disease?
Sickle cell disease is an inherited condition. Two genes for the sickle hemoglobin must be inherited from one’s parents in order to have the disease.
How Are Genes Inherited?
At the time of conception, a person receives one set of genes from the mother (egg) and a corresponding set of genes from the father (sperm). The genes exist on structures inside cells called chromosomes. The combined effects of many genes determine some traits (hair color and height, for instance). Other characteristics are determined by one gene pair. Sickle cell disease is a condition that is determined by a single pair of genes (one from each parent).
How are Sickle Cell Genes Inherited?
A person receives the sickle cell genes or not only at the time of conception. Therefore, neither sickle cell trait nor sickle cell disease can be contracted. By the same token, people cannot lose their sickle cell genes over time. A person born with sickle cell trait (one sickle cell gene) will always have sickle cell trait. The same is true of sickle cell disease (two sickle cell genes).
…………………………………………………
http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/scd_inheritance.html
Anemia, sickle cell
Sickle cell anemia is the most common inherited blood disorder in the United States, affecting about 72,000 Americans or 1 in 500 African Americans….
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bo.....section.98
Inheritance of Sickle cell genes
* Sickle-cell conditions are inherited from parents in much the same way as blood type, hair color and texture, eye color and other physical traits. * The types of haemoglobin a person makes in the red blood cells depend upon what haemoglobin genes the person inherits from his parents
Examples
1. If one parent has sickle-cell anaemia (”SS” in the diagram) and the other is Normal (AA), all of their children will have sickle cell trait (AS).
2. If one parent has sickle-cell anaemia (SS) and the other has Sickle Cell Trait (AS), there is a 50% chance (or 1 out of 2) of a child having sickle cell disease (SS) and a 50% chance of a child having sickle cell trait (AS).
3. When both parents have sickle cell trait (AS), they have a 25% chance (1 of 4) of a child having sickle cell disease (SS), as shown in the diagram.
Sickle-cell anemia appears to be caused by a recessive allele. Two carrier parents have a one in four chance of having a child with the disease. The child will be homozygous recessive.
………………………………..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....nheritance
How Did Many Greeks inherit sickle cell Haplogroup Hbs 19 which originates from Nigeria:
Answer: The same way that sickle cell has been proven to be transmitted. They got it from their ancestral parents who left Nigeria to settle the Mediterranean Islands.
Jahdey
PS: According to Dr. Graham Segearnt:
“The Senegal haplotype occurs on the Atlantic coast of West Africa, the Benin haplotype in central West Africa, especially Ghana, Nigeria, and Côte d’Ivoire, and the Bantu or Central African Republic haplotype in Zaire, the Central African Republic, Angola and Kenya…”
“From these original foci of the HbS mutation, the gene spread along trading routes to North Africa and the Mediterranean, was transported in large populations to North and South America and the Caribbean”
“The Benin haplotype accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily, Northern Greece, Southern Turkey … suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa.
See Dr. Graham Segearnt’s article above.
See also for more reading:
Ragusa A, Lombardo M, Sortino G, et al. ßs gene in Sicily is in linkage disequilibrium with the Benin haplotype: implications for gene flow. Am J Hematol 1988;27:139-41.
El-Hazmi MAF. Beta globin gene haplotypes in the Saudi sickle cell anemia patients. Human Heredity 1990;40:177-86.
Padmos MA, Roberts GT, Sackey K, et al. Two different forms of homozygous sickle cell disease occur in Saudi Arabia. Br J Haematology 1991;79:93-8.
Zago MA, Figueiredo MS, Ogo SH. Bantu Hbs cluster haplotype predominates among Brazilian Blacks. Am J Phys Anthropol 1992;88:295-8.
Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas Ph. The origin of the sickle cell mutation in Greece: evidence from Hbs globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Hemoglobins 1991;15:459-67.
December 19th, 2007 at 1:08 pm. Permalink.
Can’t handle reality can you..
The Underhill paper seems interesting but unfortunately don’t have access to it and based on how you’ve selectively cited previous papers. I’d prefer to have my doubts untill I do actually read it.
As for Weale’s paper, why do you dread to disclose that he doesn’t reject the possibility of a back-migration event or that out of a large group, a total of some 1250 Nigerians only 5 had this HG, could it be cause you’d have to take back your claim of the “highest incident” being found in Nigeria?
Your BBC link does nothing to assist you in responding to my request of a citation of another paper which would support the widespread existance of A in Hellas.
Finally on Graham’s paper, I again ask.. exactly what don’t you understand.. is it really so hard to comprehend that in the very beginning of the paper he clarifies that its NOT an indication of ancestry?
“. OVER THE GENERATIONS, THE SICKLE CELL TRAIT HAS THEREFORE REACHED HIGH FREQUENCIES IN MALARIOUS AREAS. THE FACTOR IN COMMON TO THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE SICKLE CELL GENE IS THEREFORE MALARIA AND NOT AFRICAN ANCESTRY.”
December 28th, 2007 at 12:51 am. Permalink.
More Lessons on Genetic Science for Orphesus:
A study by Di Giacomo et al. in 2003 found the following African haplogroups in Greeks: Haplogroup A which is highly specific to West Africa, R1a, DE, and J2*(xDYS413= 18)J*(xJ2). R1* which probably gave rise to R1a is found in Northern Cameroon. DE is found principally among Nigerians and it is suspected that it originated from Nigeria. J is very prominent in East, and North Africa.
“…DE molecular ancestors first evolved inside Africa and subsequently contributed as Y chromosome founders to pioneering migrations….” See Peter A. Underhill , Toomas Kivisild, “Use of Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Population Structure in Tracing Human Migrations,” Annual Review of Genetics, Vol. 41: 539-564 (Volume publication date December 2007)
According to Weal et al.: “…Of the five DE* individuals, three had a microsatellite haplotype consisting of repeat sizes 13-13-22-11-11-13 (loci arranged in same order as listed above) while the other two had a haplotype differing by one step at DYS391 only (13-13-22-10-11-13). This high level of similarity in such a rapidly evolving system strongly suggests that these five individuals share a private common ancestor (as in Fig 2C, Fig D, or e). We note that of the three possible branching patterns, two (Fig 2C and Fig D) would imply an African origin for YAP…”
“Here we report a new very rare deep-rooting haplogroup within the YAP clade, together with data on other deep-rooting YAP clades (Fig 1). The new haplogroup, so far found only in five Nigerians, is the least derived of all YAP chromosomes according to currently known binary markers, such that application of the same phylogeographic inference method used by Hammer and colleagues (the nested cladistic method of TEMPLETON et al. 1995 Down) leads to the opposite conclusion—i.e., significant evidence for range expansion from West Africa to Asia…” (Jahdey”s comments: and Greece too where DE has been identified) See Michael E. Weale et al in “Rare Deep-Rooting Y Chromosome lineages in Humans: Lessons for Phylogeography, genetics 165: 229-234
Jahdey continues trashing Orphesus:
Orphesus chats about 1250 Nigerians and 5 Nigerians. Well, if you bothered to have looked closer you would have noticed that DE* is a rare deep-rooting Y chromosome. Orphesus the title of Michael Weals’ paper reads : “Rare Deep-Rooting Y Chromosome lineages in Humans:”
Thus so far so good, this rare haplogroup DE* which is the obvious genetic ancestor of the DE found in Greeks has been identified in Nigerians (the five tested in that study) out of the entire globe.
In any event, I would advise you to go pay for Underhill’s paper which is available online (the one you claim not to have accessed) to broaden your understanding of genetic science. It cost only $18. Do that instead of playing the pathetically ignorant troll.
Point made.
Greeks carry so many recent African genetic haplogroups that this issue has become trite and moot.
Even Orphesus has grudgingly admitted this.
Again I urge you Orphesus:
Just cite one, one peer reviewed paper that disproves the thesis of the article “The Nigerian origins of ancient Greeks”:
(a)that ancient Greeks have HBS genes from Nigeria; Haplogroup 19.
(b)that ancient Greeks also carry genetic material originating from Ethiopia;
(c)that haplogroup A, and E-M78, are absent on the Agean Islands and as such in Greeks.
If you are unable to cite one scientific paper to counter my arguments or to support your own, then you remain the illiterate that you will always be.
Jahdey
December 28th, 2007 at 12:22 pm. Permalink.
To all,
I am a Greek-American living in the United States (family originally from central Greece). Like many Greeks, I carry the Sickle Cell trait and find much of what is written on this blog to be very interesting; especially the segment that concludes that most Greeks share a common origin in West Africa (Nigeria, Ethiopia, etc).
To be honest, I’m totally okay with this conclusion as I am very proud of my Greek heritage and equally excited about knowing the origins of my people.
Best regards
December 31st, 2007 at 7:56 pm. Permalink.
Sorry but most Greek don’t share any common origins with Africans, espe