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	<title>Comments on: The Black Greeks &#8212; (by Prof. Clyde Winters)</title>
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	<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/</link>
	<description>Rastafarian Views on Life, Politics and Social Issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:17:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jahdey</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-39432</link>
		<dc:creator>Jahdey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 02:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-39432</guid>
		<description>Wrong again. Aithali translates as soot, and an alternative translation is Kativa. You will agree with me that &quot;Kati&quot; even though used for soot is not a root word for black in classical greek. Same goes for &quot;Aithali&quot;. It may translate as &quot;soot&quot; but it does not mean black. 

If a classical Greek wanted to say black he would have used the Greek word Mauros, which meant black! Alternatives word is melas, as I have stated in melanin (dark pigment), melatonin (dark hormone). 

See: http://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1SKPC_enCA332CA337&amp;gcx=w&amp;sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=how+to+say+soot+in+greek#pq=translate+soot+to+greek&amp;hl=en&amp;cp=15&amp;gs_id=w&amp;xhr=t&amp;q=translate+black+to+greek&amp;pf=p&amp;sclient=psy-ab&amp;rlz=1C1SKPC_enCA332CA337&amp;source=hp&amp;pbx=1&amp;oq=translate+black+to+greek&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;gs_sm=&amp;gs_upl=&amp;bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&amp;fp=391846ed1f786bcb&amp;biw=1024&amp;bih=677

Why would classical Greeks use a a metaphor to describe the &quot;black&quot; (i.e. Athiopia- burnt faces - black) skin of an African when they already have better words to describe black and dark, i.e. Mauros and Melas. Have you ever asked yourself that? Do you recall Othello the Maur? It means Othello the black! Maur means black in ancient classical Greek. 

I hope that helped you.

Jahdey

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong again. Aithali translates as soot, and an alternative translation is Kativa. You will agree with me that &#8220;Kati&#8221; even though used for soot is not a root word for black in classical greek. Same goes for &#8220;Aithali&#8221;. It may translate as &#8220;soot&#8221; but it does not mean black. </p>
<p>If a classical Greek wanted to say black he would have used the Greek word Mauros, which meant black! Alternatives word is melas, as I have stated in melanin (dark pigment), melatonin (dark hormone). </p>
<p>See: <a href="http://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1SKPC_enCA332CA337&#038;gcx=w&#038;sourceid=chrome&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;q=how+to+say+soot+in+greek#pq=translate+soot+to+greek&#038;hl=en&#038;cp=15&#038;gs_id=w&#038;xhr=t&#038;q=translate+black+to+greek&#038;pf=p&#038;sclient=psy-ab&#038;rlz=1C1SKPC_enCA332CA337&#038;source=hp&#038;pbx=1&#038;oq=translate+black+to+greek&#038;aq=f&#038;aqi=&#038;aql=&#038;gs_sm=&#038;gs_upl=&#038;bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&#038;fp=391846ed1f786bcb&#038;biw=1024&#038;bih=677" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1SKPC_enCA332CA337&#038;gcx=w&#038;sourceid=chrome&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;q=how+to+say+soot+in+greek#pq=translate+soot+to+greek&#038;hl=en&#038;cp=15&#038;gs_id=w&#038;xhr=t&#038;q=translate+black+to+greek&#038;pf=p&#038;sclient=psy-ab&#038;rlz=1C1SKPC_enCA332CA337&#038;source=hp&#038;pbx=1&#038;oq=translate+black+to+greek&#038;aq=f&#038;aqi=&#038;aql=&#038;gs_sm=&#038;gs_upl=&#038;bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&#038;fp=391846ed1f786bcb&#038;biw=1024&#038;bih=677</a></p>
<p>Why would classical Greeks use a a metaphor to describe the &#8220;black&#8221; (i.e. Athiopia- burnt faces &#8211; black) skin of an African when they already have better words to describe black and dark, i.e. Mauros and Melas. Have you ever asked yourself that? Do you recall Othello the Maur? It means Othello the black! Maur means black in ancient classical Greek. </p>
<p>I hope that helped you.</p>
<p>Jahdey</p>
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		<title>By: Gena</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-39428</link>
		<dc:creator>Gena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-39428</guid>
		<description>The word comes from the verb &quot;????&quot; (AITHO)  (burn) and &quot;???&quot; (OPSI) (face, appearance) and means people with burnt faces, denoting their black faces. Another word is ?????? (AITHALI), meaning burnt carbon contained in the air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word comes from the verb &#8220;????&#8221; (AITHO)  (burn) and &#8220;???&#8221; (OPSI) (face, appearance) and means people with burnt faces, denoting their black faces. Another word is ?????? (AITHALI), meaning burnt carbon contained in the air.</p>
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		<title>By: Vikki</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-39317</link>
		<dc:creator>Vikki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-39317</guid>
		<description>I am an African American and just received my results for my maternal DNA ancestry. The NUMBER ONE Native Population Match has shown that I stemmed from CRETE, GREECE. My number one GLOBAL population match results has shown CRETE,GREECE. My number one World Region match has shown AFrican Great Lakes region  with Aegean and Mediterranean coming in at number 5 and number 7 spot. So, what you say makes ALOT of sense to me. My DNA is a witness to it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an African American and just received my results for my maternal DNA ancestry. The NUMBER ONE Native Population Match has shown that I stemmed from CRETE, GREECE. My number one GLOBAL population match results has shown CRETE,GREECE. My number one World Region match has shown AFrican Great Lakes region  with Aegean and Mediterranean coming in at number 5 and number 7 spot. So, what you say makes ALOT of sense to me. My DNA is a witness to it</p>
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		<title>By: Dimitrios</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-39026</link>
		<dc:creator>Dimitrios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-39026</guid>
		<description>lets put it this way
If you were not born from a Greek father to pass down the Orthodox Religion then you are not greek...
If you dont speak greek youre not greek..
so keep debating theres no point because none of you have greek culture, but this is very amusing....By the way i have respect for all orthodox countries ethiopia included!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lets put it this way<br />
If you were not born from a Greek father to pass down the Orthodox Religion then you are not greek&#8230;<br />
If you dont speak greek youre not greek..<br />
so keep debating theres no point because none of you have greek culture, but this is very amusing&#8230;.By the way i have respect for all orthodox countries ethiopia included!!!</p>
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		<title>By: History buff</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-30363</link>
		<dc:creator>History buff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 00:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-30363</guid>
		<description>Every time I hear someone try to show how so-and-so are the &quot;real&quot; Greeks... rather than the Greeks themselves.. I am reminded of Hitler&#039;s bizarre racial theories. Nazi scholars claimed modern Germans were actually the inheritors of ancient Greece. It&#039;s racism pure and simple. (imo even many that claim to be against racism are crypto racists) 

Those that typically promote this sort of racist gibberish have a perception of identity that is obviously based on some quack pre-20th century eugenic concepts of national races. Modern genetics has blown away these ideas but unfortunately these myths remain mainstream.(even at supposed reputable news papers like the New York Times sadly)

Earth to your brains. An ethnic identity does not equal a race. Every nation and people are a genetic mix .&quot;Greek&#039; is a cultural/linguistic affiliation much like &quot;Jewish&quot;  or &quot;Chinese&quot; or &quot;English&quot;  or &quot;German&quot;. (e.g. It was recently uncovered Hitlers DNA had recent inputs from regions traditionally non-Germanic)

While modern populations do show biological traces of past populations the fact is every generation, receives genetic inputs from other ethnic sources. Thus the only thing truly meaningful to identity is culture (especially language).  The ancient Greeks were culturally affiliated with Hellenism. They were not Africans.... not Germas..not Slavic... not &quot;insert some crackpot with a political agenda here&quot;. As Aristotle said. A is A. A is not B. 

If anyone claims to be the &quot;real&quot; Greeks... learn Greek, embrace Hellenic culture, and call yourselves Greeks. Otherwise you are about as Greek as an average Mexican is Mayan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every time I hear someone try to show how so-and-so are the &#8220;real&#8221; Greeks&#8230; rather than the Greeks themselves.. I am reminded of Hitler&#8217;s bizarre racial theories. Nazi scholars claimed modern Germans were actually the inheritors of ancient Greece. It&#8217;s racism pure and simple. (imo even many that claim to be against racism are crypto racists) </p>
<p>Those that typically promote this sort of racist gibberish have a perception of identity that is obviously based on some quack pre-20th century eugenic concepts of national races. Modern genetics has blown away these ideas but unfortunately these myths remain mainstream.(even at supposed reputable news papers like the New York Times sadly)</p>
<p>Earth to your brains. An ethnic identity does not equal a race. Every nation and people are a genetic mix .&#8221;Greek&#8217; is a cultural/linguistic affiliation much like &#8220;Jewish&#8221;  or &#8220;Chinese&#8221; or &#8220;English&#8221;  or &#8220;German&#8221;. (e.g. It was recently uncovered Hitlers DNA had recent inputs from regions traditionally non-Germanic)</p>
<p>While modern populations do show biological traces of past populations the fact is every generation, receives genetic inputs from other ethnic sources. Thus the only thing truly meaningful to identity is culture (especially language).  The ancient Greeks were culturally affiliated with Hellenism. They were not Africans&#8230;. not Germas..not Slavic&#8230; not &#8220;insert some crackpot with a political agenda here&#8221;. As Aristotle said. A is A. A is not B. </p>
<p>If anyone claims to be the &#8220;real&#8221; Greeks&#8230; learn Greek, embrace Hellenic culture, and call yourselves Greeks. Otherwise you are about as Greek as an average Mexican is Mayan.</p>
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		<title>By: Oracle</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-29148</link>
		<dc:creator>Oracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 03:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-29148</guid>
		<description>Dave it seems like to me you got your Greek information and history from White racists scholars and anthropologists. White people are not a &quot;pure&quot; anything. They are a mixture of Albino and Black African (Dravidian). They entered Europe from their home in Central Asia about circa 1200 B.C. 

So what did you think, White people came from another planet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave it seems like to me you got your Greek information and history from White racists scholars and anthropologists. White people are not a &#8220;pure&#8221; anything. They are a mixture of Albino and Black African (Dravidian). They entered Europe from their home in Central Asia about circa 1200 B.C. </p>
<p>So what did you think, White people came from another planet?</p>
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		<title>By: Truth</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-29129</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2011 05:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-29129</guid>
		<description>I have a masters degree in History while specializing in Ancient Classical Studies. I am currently in my second year of Law School. 

The reason I post my credentials is to explain that I have an extensive knowledge of the aforementioned topics. I will not re-post here often but I feel as though this board has the potential to uncover some interesting facts, as such I will try and add to this interesting debate. 

First and foremost before introducing anything new into this field. I want to address two members who have posted on these topics. Jahdney and Dave. It is clear that both of you are not in the pursuit of knowledge. You both answer the other with facts that do not get to the core of the issue. Furthermore, you rely on Strawman Logic, claiming relationships in etymologies that you have not studied or read. I advise the both of you to really read up on the areas that you are arguing. 

Another important point to consider for the both of you. Do not use explicit numbers that cannot be verified. I will give two examples why the both of you really need to be careful of your claims because numbers can easily be verified.  Jahdney you claim that Black-Africans were here 1 000 000 years prior to White-Europeans. Homo-Sapien dates back at the most too 600 000 years ago. Dave you clearly have copied and pasted scientific data that does not conclusively prove anything. In fact you both point to DNA statistics that are based on contemporary scientists who clearly have construed facts on modern DNA collection. 

At any point, I will not deduce what I personally believe because I am interested in discussing ideas and truths. Unlike Dave and Jahdney I do not have an ulterior-motive. I advise all of you on this board to take what these two &quot;Spin-Doctor&#039;s&quot; have to say. They will distort facts and statistics to serve their own personal motives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a masters degree in History while specializing in Ancient Classical Studies. I am currently in my second year of Law School. </p>
<p>The reason I post my credentials is to explain that I have an extensive knowledge of the aforementioned topics. I will not re-post here often but I feel as though this board has the potential to uncover some interesting facts, as such I will try and add to this interesting debate. </p>
<p>First and foremost before introducing anything new into this field. I want to address two members who have posted on these topics. Jahdney and Dave. It is clear that both of you are not in the pursuit of knowledge. You both answer the other with facts that do not get to the core of the issue. Furthermore, you rely on Strawman Logic, claiming relationships in etymologies that you have not studied or read. I advise the both of you to really read up on the areas that you are arguing. </p>
<p>Another important point to consider for the both of you. Do not use explicit numbers that cannot be verified. I will give two examples why the both of you really need to be careful of your claims because numbers can easily be verified.  Jahdney you claim that Black-Africans were here 1 000 000 years prior to White-Europeans. Homo-Sapien dates back at the most too 600 000 years ago. Dave you clearly have copied and pasted scientific data that does not conclusively prove anything. In fact you both point to DNA statistics that are based on contemporary scientists who clearly have construed facts on modern DNA collection. </p>
<p>At any point, I will not deduce what I personally believe because I am interested in discussing ideas and truths. Unlike Dave and Jahdney I do not have an ulterior-motive. I advise all of you on this board to take what these two &#8220;Spin-Doctor&#8217;s&#8221; have to say. They will distort facts and statistics to serve their own personal motives.</p>
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		<title>By: victoria</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-28929</link>
		<dc:creator>victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-28929</guid>
		<description>Ras Nilolaso....word!! big ups!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ras Nilolaso&#8230;.word!! big ups!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jahdey</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-28877</link>
		<dc:creator>Jahdey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-28877</guid>
		<description>Meaning of Ethiopia:

The name of this region has been derived, through the Greek form, aithiopia, from the two words aitho, &quot;I burn&quot;, and ops, &quot;face&quot;. 

........


&lt;strong&gt;But a different origin is claimed for the name by many modern researchers, some of whom say that the Greeks borrowed the word from the Egyptians, and that as early as the Twelfth Dynasty the Egyptians knew the land under the name Ksh, or Kshi. One form of this word, with the aleph prefix, Ekoshi (the Coptic eshoosh, eshôsh, ethosh) would thus be the real root-word.&lt;/strong&gt; 

Others maintain that it is derived from the Arabic word atyab, the plural form of tib, which means &quot;spices&quot;, &quot;perfumes&quot; (Glaser, &quot;Die Abissinier in Arabien und Afrika&quot;, Munich, 1895), or from an Arabo-Sabean word, atyub, which has the same meaning. (Halévy in &quot;Revue Sémitique&quot;, IV.) 

See Catholic Encyclopadia: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05566a.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meaning of Ethiopia:</p>
<p>The name of this region has been derived, through the Greek form, aithiopia, from the two words aitho, &#8220;I burn&#8221;, and ops, &#8220;face&#8221;. </p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p><strong>But a different origin is claimed for the name by many modern researchers, some of whom say that the Greeks borrowed the word from the Egyptians, and that as early as the Twelfth Dynasty the Egyptians knew the land under the name Ksh, or Kshi. One form of this word, with the aleph prefix, Ekoshi (the Coptic eshoosh, eshôsh, ethosh) would thus be the real root-word.</strong> </p>
<p>Others maintain that it is derived from the Arabic word atyab, the plural form of tib, which means &#8220;spices&#8221;, &#8220;perfumes&#8221; (Glaser, &#8220;Die Abissinier in Arabien und Afrika&#8221;, Munich, 1895), or from an Arabo-Sabean word, atyub, which has the same meaning. (Halévy in &#8220;Revue Sémitique&#8221;, IV.) </p>
<p>See Catholic Encyclopadia: <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05566a.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05566a.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jahdey</title>
		<link>http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/comment-page-1/#comment-28876</link>
		<dc:creator>Jahdey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/2006/06/29/the-black-greeks-by-prof-clyde-winters/#comment-28876</guid>
		<description>George

Like all half-educated albino wannabes you just made a fool of yourself.

&quot;Aithi-ops&quot;

According to you the root Greek word &quot;Aithios&quot; means &quot;to burn, burning or fire-colour.&quot;  I accept that.  Does &quot;fire-colour&quot; mean black to you?

The Greek word &quot;Ops&quot; means face.

Thus Aithios-ops could mean Fire-face, or burning face, or &quot;to burn face&quot;.

So you see how insufferably stupid you come across with your show of ignorance?

Mela means dark in Greek, like mela-nin, mela-nchros, melanpodes....  

The Greeks called the ancient Kemitians Egyptians, &quot;melanpode&quot; or black-feet to indicate their black colour.

Mela is not the same as Aithos.

You get the drift....

Now go shack up with your fellow hilly-billies and smoke more meth...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George</p>
<p>Like all half-educated albino wannabes you just made a fool of yourself.</p>
<p>&#8220;Aithi-ops&#8221;</p>
<p>According to you the root Greek word &#8220;Aithios&#8221; means &#8220;to burn, burning or fire-colour.&#8221;  I accept that.  Does &#8220;fire-colour&#8221; mean black to you?</p>
<p>The Greek word &#8220;Ops&#8221; means face.</p>
<p>Thus Aithios-ops could mean Fire-face, or burning face, or &#8220;to burn face&#8221;.</p>
<p>So you see how insufferably stupid you come across with your show of ignorance?</p>
<p>Mela means dark in Greek, like mela-nin, mela-nchros, melanpodes&#8230;.  </p>
<p>The Greeks called the ancient Kemitians Egyptians, &#8220;melanpode&#8221; or black-feet to indicate their black colour.</p>
<p>Mela is not the same as Aithos.</p>
<p>You get the drift&#8230;.</p>
<p>Now go shack up with your fellow hilly-billies and smoke more meth&#8230;</p>
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